Hot Rods Model A Rake and Mechanical Brakes, etc.. Build thread?

Basic design is same as Offenhauser shocks sold by Speedway, but there are some differences, which are improvements i hope... Offenhauser is for front, mine has correct lenght arms for rear too. Mine include shock link balls. Mine are not symmetric, which gives arm more movement.


Friction pads are Offenhauser replacement ( ones https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Replacement-Friction-Pads-for-Offenhauser-Friction-Shocks,24984.html ) and shock link balls are from Mikes ( https://www.mikes-afordable.com/product/A4024.html. ) Disc springs are stainless ones from local spring shop. For other parts, i made drawings and ordered from local sheet metal shop.

And they do mount to original shock mount holes. The "not for stock body applications" note on Mikes add is just because extra spacer have to be made to clear inner fender at rear. Personally i would say that Mikes do not make addvertising too good, cause that note might loose some deals for guys with original body A.

 

Thanks Latt,
I was thinking the rear bracket may be the reason for the disclaimer.
A quick question on adjustment. How do you determine they are equal? I would think an inch pound torque wrench? Is there a suggested torque? I'm thinking the front tighter than the rear?
This is definitely an attractive option. Not only do they look very cool they are less than the cost of one OEM lever shock.
One another note. On your photo of the shocks I couldn't help but notice what appears to be a modified 30-31 Model A crossmember in the background.
If you note in my previous post I'm currently pondering modifying my crossmember.. Mine had a plate welded on top and it appears this was reinforcement due to cracks around the motor mount holes. I need to replace that section anyway and was thinking about raising it a bit for additional drop and using '28-29 squared off u-bolts and skipping that top plate. Are they the u-bolts on that?
Pretty much what you had pictured.
What I would really like to do is get enough drop and avoid the need for a reverse eye spring.
Do you have any photos of the crossmember modification in progress?

Thanks,
robj
P.S. The more I think about it I think I am going to go for a set of your shocks.
P.P.S "Personally i would say that Mikes do not make advertising too good,"
I agree, they could explain that a little better.

 

There ain't any scientific adjustment for the shocks. My addvice is to adjust them with dog bones uninstalled, moving lever by arm so that there is resistance but still able move it. Then test drive and tighten if needed. Those leaf springs have pretty much friction by them selves, which dampens movement, so shocks don't have to be too tight. I'm not sure if i succeed, but i tried include my instructions to this message.

That is the way i did adjust them on my T-A-B speedster, and i don't think it could be much better. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/t-a-b-project.1315428/

 

And for the cross member on my 28 tudor, if i recall right it is about same dimensions as original. I only fixed old cracks and reinforcements, cutting top section away and weld new part cutted from retangular thick wall tubing in place. Mayby placed it about 1/2 inch higher, really can't remember, it was more than 20 years ago.

Anyway i found a pic of crossmember before fixing and how my tudor standed with 3 leafs removed and eyes reversed, both front and rear springs. Tires were 6.70-15 at front and L78-15 rear.

 

that is badd ass everything right there..

 

Still pondering raising the center of the front crossmember some for a little more drop. After mounting the rad and the '28-29 square U-bolts looks like I can get almost an inch. I wouldn't bother but the center has a number of cracks so I need to do something with it anyway.

While pondering that I'm going to tackle the crack in the frame at the rear motor mount. It was previously "repaired" by just welding it up on the outside, [without jacking the frame] so we have about a 3/8" sag in the frame. There was also a pretty ugly fish plate on the bottom. The plan is to cut open the crack, raise the frame to remove the sag and weld that up. Then cut the section of the fishplate out and weld in new metal. There was also a pretty good wear pattern along the top of the frame, from the edge of the fender moving around. I'm going the fill that with weld as well.
We'll see how it goes,
robj
P.S. I did order the Friction Shocks from "Mikes' affordable". I think they're going work out well.

 

Just found your thread...
This is what I wound up with using a reversed eye top leaf and stock Ford parts.

 

Just found your thread...
This is what I wound up with using a reversed eye top leaf and stock Ford parts.

Grumpy,
Thanks for posting. I took a quick look at your build thread and will be reading further when I get a chance. On the first page you said;
"My 1st step is going to be installing the engine and then address the suspension and stance, in front the plan is to use a '33 thru '36 axle, reversed eye top leaf and the removal of #2, #3 & #4 leafs. If my calculations are correct, it should give me about a 4"drop. In the rear I am going to use a reversed eye Model T style spring, possibly removing a leaf or 2. "

Is that what you ended up doing? I have a question or two about your engine so I will be back.

Again, thanks for the post,

robj

 

I wound up having to put the #4 leaf back in due to the front tires rubbing when making sharp turns. The photo is with #4 re-installed. In the rear I left the spring pack intact, I didn't remove any leaf's.

 

Thanks.
Another quick question; Do you recall what the drop is on 33-36 axle compared to the stock Model A?
robj

 

This picture is the first Drop axle-Mechanical brake suspension I did on a '31 Roadster back in 2010, it worked fine with the banger engine and model A brakes/Drums, I drove it all over Bonneville in 2011, the key to this set up is '32-'34 Spindles and '32-'34 Spring perches with a 1 inch spacer. I have two of these conversions and I always use Okie Joe's stretch drop Model A axle which is stock width in case you run fenders and doesn't require and modifications to the spindles, don't listen to all these folks on here that have never done this conversion, it works great with the banger engine and it is super simple. You can search my build thread for more information.

 

I couldn't find my original build but this is it when I sold it about 10 years ago.........

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/pre-war-hot-rod-1931-model-a-roadster.1066795/

 

Thanks Tex,
This is really helpful. It's such a big help when you are able to say exactly what parts you used.
To be honest my head is swimming a little as it seems there's many ways to achieve the same thing.

And it can be a little hard to compare the results of using this or that unless there's a full side shot and the size tires are indicated.

I was on Oakie Joe's site last night looking at the dropped and stretched for my '30.
I've concluded the 32-34 spring perches are a must when keeping the mechanical brakes, but forgive my ignorance, what is the reason for the 32-34 spindles?
I've seen where other's have used them but no one seems to say why.

The other question I'm stumbling on is how to determine the correct length spring. I'm a little torn between reversing the eye on my spring, or "springing" for a Posies "super-slide" as even with the rounded end option are really not that expensive at $230.
It's going to be a while before I need to order things as I'm still doing repairs on my frame. But I would like to have a firm plan in my mind.

thanks again,
robj

 

The '32-34 spindles do not require any heating of bending of the steering arms when you use them with the stretch dropped axle, my understanding is the stock model A spindles require a lot of mods to make them work.

The front spring is easy, I always use a reverse eye Model A Mr. Roadster spring from speedway, that is what you see on the picture above.

 

A 31-1/2" eye-eye spring is correct for use with stock '28-'36 axle.

Usually need to order the 31-1/2" direct from Posies.

Note: A Posies 1001L spring will get you a little lower; it has a 4-1/2" arch compared to their regular 1001 5-1/2" arch spring.

If you reverse the eyes on a stock spring; they usually end up a little longer eye-eye. Works OK tho.

Speedway stocks Posies 31" spring which will work; but the shackles don't swing down all the way to 45 degrees. Save on shipping, tho.

 

36 axel ???leafs pulled??

 

.color choice...A+
.motor choice ..B (unless it's a "B" motor) then A+
Tire choice and size........A+
.Wheel size and choice...A+
Over all stance ans look ...A+
Class..."BAD ASS A BONE SEDAN"

 

Thank you.

 

Model A axle has a 1" factory drop and the '33-'36 has a 2" - 2 1/4" factory drop.

 

The '32 spindles, besides not having to modify the steering arm, also gives you an additional 3/4" drop compared to the stock Model A spindles.

 

A 31-1/2" eye-eye spring is correct for use with stock '28-'36 axle.

Speedway stocks Posies 31" spring which will work; but the shackles don't swing down all the way to 45 degrees. Save on shipping, tho.[/QUOTE]

Rich,
By "stock axle" would that also be correct for a 4" dropped and stretched axle?

I have to say all you guys are just a "World Book" of information!

Thanks so much.
robj

 

Rich,
By "stock axle" would that also be correct for a 4" dropped and stretched axle?

@tricyclerob

Yes, by stock I mean something that started life as a '28-'36 Ford axle, whether dropped or not.

Not an aftermarket axle that can come in many varieties of perch bolt centers.

 

Got it.
Thanks.

 

Grumpy,
I'm getting a bit ahead of myself but some questions keep rolling around in my head.
I was looking at your thread and you mentioned using a Stromberg 97, but mentioning needing to get it rebuilt.
After the rebuild, did you have any drivability issues with the 97?
Was doing some carb research and found;
Stock engine will flow about 160 cfm. 1930 came with a Zenith-1 carb but trying to find a CFM rating for that has been challenging.
Mine came with a Marvel Schebler carburetor [80 cfm] which many say runs better than the Zenith.

The Stromberg 97 is 160-175 cfm[?] with is a bit more than the stated cfm of the stock engine. For that reason I was thinking a Stromberg 81, [116 cfm] for better drivability.

So my engine is at a reputable flat head shop [Schwalm's] that specializes in model A +B flatheads as well as V-8's
It is getting an inserted, counter-balanced crank, .100 over pistons, 1.70 S.S. valves, [intake]
.330 lift /.244 camshaft, and a 6.5 head. 45 pound flywheel with a V-8 clutch.

If finances permit, a Mitchel +15% 1st gear, and +15% second gear transmission. [Ora said with that transmission the 45lb flywheel should work fine]
Single downdraft manifold, [make TBD], a cast iron header and a Model B distributor. Aries Hi-Po muffler.

I have always been very careful about over- carburetoring for drivability.

I'm now wondering if with the mods listed it would handle the Stomberg 97? [which is cheaper than the 81]
Okay, back to frame straightening...

robj

 

robj...
I had no drivability problems with the 97. I had sent it to @uncle max, in Colorado, along with a description of the modifications that had been made to my engine and he set it up accordingly. Sorry, I don't remember what those settings were off hand.

 

Another quick question if you don't mind. I was watching "Maine A" on YouTube and the guy mentioned that with a downdraft and a tall manifold when you get to a half tank of gas, [being gravity feed] it will start to run out of fuel.
So I was looking at manifolds that were lower. But I'm thinking that would also reduce intake velocity.

Ever hear of that? The running out of fuel part?

rob

 

...that's why the old rods and racecars had hand pumps to (air) pressurize the gas tanks...

 

Not only have I heard of it, I've experienced it. Installed an electric fuel pump and solved the problem.
GuyW is correct!

 

What MaineA actually said it would run out at about 1/2 tank.
So, could I assume if the fuel inlet for the carb was below the output pipe on the fuel bowl it would flow?
Asking as I've seen a few where the rise on the carb flange is minimal.

robj

 

Gear Drive sells one where the carb mount base is really low. https://www.lakeheaders.com/products/single-carb-model-a-intake-manifold