The frame side mounts with the adjustment bolt/ jack bolt came with the springs. The axle side we fabricated.
No photos but I adjusted the jack bolts and got it to within an 1/8” of where I had it before I ran out of time. About two full turns of that jack bolts is at least an inch of height change it’s pretty wild! With the cycling of the suspension the shackles all kinda wiggled into the correct position and at full droop I could get the nuts on everything. Tightened them down and everything moved in place with no more effort that what I would expect from tightening a nylock. Did hear a pop so I think I’ve got a tack somewhere that let go but nothing seems to have moved so I’m not worried for now. I did notice that the axle seemed a little further forward than I thought. I put the laser on it and it seems I may have lost about 5/8 of wheel base but I have the clevises threaded nearly all the way in so I think I can adjust them out and get the wheel base back correct and the pinion angle dialed in. Pushing it back will also put my shackle angle back to where I want it. I’m trying to get it to 45 deg roughly at ride height. Next step will be slide the axles back in and bolt the tires on. I’m basing the wheel base off the wheels being centered in the fenders so I want to make sure during this adjustment that I don’t stray from that. I’m about ready for a break from the A to sus out a noise in the 46 that’s driving my crazy. Soon as it’s sitting on all four tires with no jack stands I take a week off and do that I think.
Here is the thread on those bolts. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/bolt-grade-markings.1341580/
Curious as to setting the shackles at 45 degrees. Looked into 1/4s a long while back and at that time they (experts, I guess) said vertical at ride height.
@RICH B the 45 deg came around because everything I read and everyone I talked to who runs them had them at different angles. The one person who set them up on purpose at 45 (which is the same as a ford cross spring) is the only one I’ve seen launch the car a lot of times on a drag strip and it hooks and pulls dead straight. So I decided that was what I would go for. As this gets put together I’m also seeing that the spring is going to get about an inch “longer” between ride height and the bump stops and I don’t want the shackle to bottom on the axle or brackets as the shackle swings with the added length. That’s basically what Joey has deduced is breaking the clevis’ on his set up guess we’ll find out!
Got the axles slid in, backing plates and retainers bolted on, drums on, wheels and tires on, gear oil possibly topped off and dropped… ok gently sat it down. hot dog! I need to tweak the springs again and it really makes the moved rear axle very obvious at a dead on side view so I need to fix that. But it’s on the ground and should I want to it would roll! later this week I’m going to remove these mismatched 650/16’s and put on the worn 750/16 excelsiors. I know there gonna be a touch short because they aren’t new but it should be a lot closer than the wrong tire size all together. that done I’ll get the rear axle pushed back and dial the springs in, make sure the pinion angle is correct and all that fun stuff. No point in*****ing with it with the wrong tires when I’m mostly trying to get the wheel diameter to match up with the fender opening diameter. after I think I’ve got it I’ll make sure it’s all square side to side and lock it down with the jamb nuts and make good notes of exactly how everything is should not decide to jostle it self at some alter point and I need reference. but anyhow here it is!
Curious, what was reasoning for radius rod on bottom instaead of spring hard mounted to axle without shackle. Im doing quarter ellptic also and cant make my mind up yet, Thanks in advance.
I’m not entirely sure what you’re asking so correct me if I’m wrong. If you are asking why I decided to run ladder bars and also the 1/4 springs with the shackle mount versus I’m guessing a 4 bar set up with the spring acting as the upper link ( solid mounted to the rear with no shackle) Then there are actually a couple reasons. 1: I love the stock ford set up. Before I realized that a narrowed transverse spring wasn’t going to work for me I had already settled on the ladder bars with the ends mounted near the tail shaft. It’s just a very proven, simple set up. 2: why a shackle? With the spring acting as only a spring and not a locating link I wanted the ladder bars to control location and the spring to just spring. Some cars actually don’t use a spring with an eye on the end and just have it rest and slide on the rear axle. ( some use a rub block others use other methods. Not too different to how torsions bar suspensions are set up a lot of the time) I didn’t love that idea so a shackle made more sense to me. Again it’s getting it as similar to a stock ford set up as I could even though it’s a little shifted around. I like things actually being connected. After seeing how much longer the spring gets under compression if I ran ladder bars and the spring solid mounted to the rear I think you’d almost immediately get into things binding. You would have made it so the spring can’t flatten. It’s boxed in between the frame side and the axle side. At least it looks that way in my head. 3: Every car I’ve seen in real life on the road is set up more or less like this. And every conversation I see about using the springs as a link in a 4 bar situation is full of a lot of math, a lot of arguing and not a whole lot of I actually did this. It just seemed to be making it a lot more work than it really needs to be. 3.5 there is quite literally no room for anything. Trying to add a more complicated set up to this tiny space sounds like a packaging nightmare. I’m sure it’s been done, everything seemingly has before, but it’s just not for me. Hopefully I understood what you were asking and this ramble helped in some way.
I'm thinking about a 4 link with 1/4 elliptics and the springs as the bottom links. But like Tim pointed out thinking abut is not having done it. I was surprised at how much Tim found that the length of the spring grew. That extra length has to go somewhere. My setup may end up looking like Tims. It is a Chevy roadster so a Ford transverse is not an option for me. Chevrolet used 1/4 elliptics on both ends until 1925. They bolted to the axles and had no other supporting parts. The springs were free to grow. On an open wheel car with a closed driveline that might work. Here are some old drawings of spring attachments. By the mid '20s it seems like the manufacturers had gone to some kind of shackle setup. We know Tims will work it is a proven design.
Those are cool drawings! Almost all of them let the axle side slip and expand. The U bolt looking retainer and the spring stops are cool features as well.
Nailed the stance! Nice job. With the tires on the forward axle is clear. Hopefully not too bit a deal to slide back. Will you have to slide the spring mounts back as well?
@drdave no I don’t think so. I have the clevis’ dang near all the way threaded in so I should have about two inches of thread inside the ladder bars at the moment. Plenty of adjustment though I’d obviously like the most thread inside the ladder as possible
Yes, I like those drawings. I stole them somewhere online. I wish I had the book they came from I bet there is a lot more good pictures in it. If anyone knows......
Swapping rubbber Thursday but this was eating at me. it measured slightly different than before. Drivers side was similar. Then realized the board I’ve been sitting on is over the ladder bar cross member and I’ve been eye balling the trans cross member tube not realizing it. Moved the board and 3 out of 4 teeny tack welds had busted. Mystery solved. I broke one while trying to force the preloaded spring position before changing course - the pop I heard- and by the time I lifted and lowered the rear axle cycling the suspension about 6-10 times I worked the others lose. Going to put jack stands back under it and I’m thinking I can roll the axle to where it’s supposed to be and line up the broken tack marks and it’ll be correct again. I had just made minimal tacks in case I needed to break them and change stuff. So nothing dramatic to re do. Feeling pretty happy to have got that figured out
I'd make sure you have a bit of in and well as out adjustment when you get this all lined back up. Maybe 5 threads? I'd hate for you to get it all dialed in, then need to cut the bar to be able to realign shorter.
@RodStRace yup that’s why I have the clevis adjusted like they are. I thought if anything they’d need to be shorter so it really threw me when it was to long! Glad to have found my culprit in some broken mock up tacks. Should be an easy fix and be back to wear it’s supposed be in short order
man it’s so handy! I watch a hamb guys you tube channel “this old hotrod” and he used one to mark were a hole was on his chassis, then clamped his bracket in place and put a dot where the cross hairs were. I thought it was genius. I use it a lot. you can easily spent $300 on one but I want to say this one was closer to $20. Can’t hardly buy a Culver’s meal for that anymore so I’d say it’s well spent
" I’ve been eye balling the trans cross member tube not realizing it." Is that a real crossmember or does it just think it is a crossmember? Those tires are going to fill the fender. Full fendered "28-'29s with the fenders filled with the right size tires are cool!
Every time someone asks about me not chopping it I show them the rear 3/4 angle with the right wheels and tires and they get it
That set of drawings is great. Im building a quarter ellp. front end on a different car than my T and it is a big learning curve for something that looks so simple.
It really is! That’s why I try to add so much info to my posts. A lot of the time the info I’m looking for I can seem to find with a search. So once I figure it out I add it to the hamb someone’s gonna need it eventually.
I’m starting to think model A chops were a factory option they’re so common… way to stick with your vision, it’ll look cool with the tall roof!
The plan for my 31 sedan is to stay full height. Several friends tell me I should chop it but I'm sticking to my guns about no chop and full fenders. I like your profile.
It’s so hard to get the proportions right on a chopped Tudor. The ones I’ve seen that I like are typically a car with fenders. But with this drastic rake I just think the stock roof adds to it.
You probably mentioned it before, what type of laser are you using? I love this thread, it's a great pictorial of what I'll be doing on mine and preview of issues I might see. The stance is killer.
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