Hey guys, Me and my brothers ‘49 had just gotten light driving this year. We got it running again (thanks to you all helping me with electrical troubleshooting). But then he goes to move it the other day and calls me to say there’s a big leak. Despite its age it’s only ever leaked a few drops from the rear end and oil from the engine. But he keeps trays under front and back. For background, we are not mechanics. We are pretty sure it’s water in the oil. The chocolate milk is 6” last full mark on the dipstick. Radiator is empty. This is actually coming out of the engine between it and the transmission. we want an idea of what we may or likely are looking at and what are troubleshooting steps are. Help or advise on next steps would be very appreciated Red
Water is getting in to the sump and raising the level so it’s probably higher than the sump pan hence the bigger leak than usual. Drain the oil and coolant then do some checks. I think I’d pull the plugs and see if there’s any water in the bores. Probably heads off after that. Do not try to start it or turn it over until you’ve confirmed there’s no water in the bores.
Wow, that's a mess. Hopefully it is not a cracked block. Would a bad head gasket do that on a flathead?
My first thought, freeze damage. It’s possible it’s not but something has allowed coolant and lots of it, into the crankcase. Usual suspects…… Head gaskets….. maybe…. We can hope. Busted heads….. We can hope it’s just the heads. Usually though, if the heads freeze and bust, something on the block has also cracked. Sometimes the heads freeze and can crack and the block does not. If so, that’s pure luck. Corroded heads…… We can hope, maybe a head has corroded and caused this. Pan rail crack at the bottom of the block above or at the oil pan surface…. Cylinder casting flaw (core shift)….. This is a factory flaw that happened at casting. This will show as voids in the cylinder. This can cause the cylinder to crack or can cause a hole in the cylinder. This is very repairable with a cylinder sleeve. Valve seat crack….. The cl***ic flathead valve seat/ upper cylinder crack… There’s other cracks too… Valve gallery Exhaust port ect. Ect. Ect….. Something goofy like a gallery plug or something….. We can hope. Next step…… Pull the engine, dis***emble and inspect. Maybe it is a gasket. Maybe it is something goofy. It needs to go on the bench for inspection. If it is a fatal crack, you can save the rods, pistons, maybe the bearings, cam, lifters, water pumps and crank for your next block. Don’t let it sit and lock up. Maybe you are lucky. I recommend anyone who runs a Flathead car to have a good block or spare engine ready.
A bad head gasket wouldn’t let almost all the coolant into the crankcase. Especially if it isn’t running. It would have to migrate past the rings. A cracked head has no access to the oil system at all. So, it is probably a crack in the block. Only way to know is dis***embly.
Hi, thanks guys. As a non mechanic with only basic shop cl***, when my gut said block I told it to shut up drowned it out w vodka. We run/ran water with some green coolant mixed in. We didn’t know if that was best for a flathead. I suggested straight water but bro added the coolant thinking it was safer. We live in central California, while we do something get cold snaps and have a few freezing days; we have not yet. And it is kept in a garage all the time. and wasn’t running. Maybe it happened right after he’d driven jt around a bit but it wasn’t a big disaster while he was driving it. He only noticed before driving it again because he always checks the fluids before driving it. sounds like checking the bores and pulling the heads is next. How hard is it to pull the bolts off the heads, my brother is worried they’ll start breaking on us due to 70 years in place. The engine is literally bone stock except the 12v conversion. So likely nothing has ever been removed or replaced. Thanks guys, this place is amazing. Red
The following is a fact….. If you are going to fix or maintain a flathead car, the days of being a “non mechanic” are quickly coming to an end. In my opinion and experience with these cars ; 1949-1951 Fords, it’s a waste of time and money to try to do a head job or a in ch***is repair. You may can do it on a truck but not a car. The way the engine sits in a shoebox car, drooping the oil pan is such a pain. It’s easier to just remove the engine, put it on a heavy duty engine stand and go through it. This will require a good garage, engine crane and space. It can be done in the yard off a A frame with hoist but, a hydraulic engine crane in a shop area is so much better. Do y’all have the place to do this?
The engine could have been damaged long before you got it running. Since it has ran and lost coolant. It could be heads, head gaskets, cracks, cracked cylinders…. You will not know until you get it apart. The bottom end needs to be inspected for damage down low. Let’s say you find blown head gaskets. You replace them and it runs good. Two weeks later it’s got chocolate milk again. That money on head gaskets was wasted because it had blown head gaskets and a cracked block. It needs to be pulled out and inspected. There’s already enough going on that I would be looking for a running 8BA to swap into it.
Speaking from experience, don't pull the dip stick out if you are standing directly over the dipstick tube. You only do that once on a block filled with water.
A radiator pressure tester rented from a parts store might help find the leak, before tearing everything apart.
Time for a swap - 289 or 302 with an early bronco or fox body pan - can keep the stock trans with an early bell - fab some front mounts as the shoebox central kit may lift the front too high.....WAY cheaper than another flatty and better in just about every way.....My response wont be the most popular (at least I didnt say SBC)
I use a 50/50 mix of water / coolant . Could probably use just coolant. I also add a cup of water soluble oil to the radiator for the sintered bronze bushings in the water pumps. Always interested to hear what others use.
Interesting. Not too many ways for all the coolant to mix with the oil in the pan. A fluid will seek level, so if the rad was “empty” the leak would have to be “level” with “bottom” of rad or the height of 6” above full mark on dipstick as stated.
We don’t have a heavy duty stand, hoist etc. his garage (mine is full now). We have buddies w a hoist but he’s not going a want to engine at his house. We’d have to get the hoist to the car, or move the engine to our house, car to his etc. h***le all around. Yeah we are looking at doing a SBF swap now. Thanks for advice on the ones to look for. ****s Red
Strange how this showed up after having driven the car a few times. Wonder if someone had used some quick fix sealer in the coolant system and it's now done doing it's job. I forgot the number of flathead blocks I looked at trying to get an engine for one of my projects...want to say six. All of them had pan rail cracks. Seems here in the Northwest, simply draining water from them for storage isn't good enough. If the temp drops to a good freeze water left in the jacket at the rails will crack them. Hope things turn out OK for a quick fix...although a SBF sounds like a winner to me. Good luck!
It looks like a pretty good coupe. Coupes are….well, coupes are special. That coupe has lots of potential. We don’t know what happened to your engine. Nobody will until you get into and find out. We know the symptoms by description but the culprit is a guess. Again, it will be unknown until the engine opened up and inspected. Online diagnosis is like googling a sore toe. Sore toe = 58 different types of terminal cancer. Sometimes a sore toe is just that, a sore toe caused by…..lots of things, none of them being cancer. My point….. Pull the engine, find out what’s wrong. It may be relatively minor. It could be major but then you’ll know. A blown head gasket can do this. It is possible. Water will get into the engine from a blown head gasket or busted head. It will turn the oil to chocolate milk. It was running so water can get past the rings. Now did all the water wind up in the crankcase or just some? Empty radiator and loss of water can be caused by a blown head gasket. Some water might get into the engine but a lot of water, probably most can be blown out the radiator overflow. Some of it can go out the tail pipe. Again , nobody will know until the cause is verified. It’s worth finding out what happened. It may, may be a simple fix.
You gotta pull the engine to switch to a SBF anyway, so pull it and find out what happened and if minor, fix it and put it back in. If a freeze cracked block, replace with what ever you want. Dave
When I was a wee lad I had a 51 Tudor that did the same thing. It ran great but I kept getting the milkshake. Pulled heads, all looked great. Turns out it had a m***ive pan rail crack. Not saying yours does but that was my experience. A 53 mercury engine that a guy had completely filled with oil (maybe diesel too, I don’t remember) solved the problem. I’m surprised Fresno gets that cold.
The Jalopy Journal
