This is what I'm talking about. Thanks for revisiting this. What happened to Hot Turkey, should be a must read, for all.
I started at the end and worked backwards. I think page 45 was the start of the drama for those wanting to get a taste of the crime juice. Guilty or not guilty, I don't know the guy but Nixon said he wasn't a crook either. But what happened, he had a break in and a car stolen. The fact is, it's a racket. Don't kid yourself thinking otherwise. To be clear, I mean the car game, from wrecking yards to auction. Cops to insurance companies...A big racket. If it's mandatory, it's a racket. What doesn't change, is the relationship between the wolf and the sheep. The lion and the lamb. The piper and the rat. Man and money. I'm going to guess that car got a makeover and is registered somewhere under a new owner. I was going to inquire if that American Stamping Corp frame rails came with a Vin of any kind but thought to much like I don't really care. But back to revisiting the frame swap, I'd do it. In a heartbeat.
Still going hey? This is the first car with a frame swap? Just talk to the DMV, do what they say, keep paperwork and drive the damn car.
I thought I would inject a perspective here on frame swaps. I am the owner of that pretty clean AZ rolling ch***is, what I can tell you is that you would be deep into paying shop rates to get your troubles under control. With a rolling ch***is (I /You- We) walk into a local DMV,,, Get it inspected, walk out with piece of mind knowing it has a clean bill of health. Then go out and enjoy life knowing it is a clean legit ch***is. My 10 cents on the matter. NO ONE is going to prison or the electric chair for doing things the right way. Best to you!
These would be the same DMVs that when I registered my 1953 Chevrolet 150 tried to argue with me that it couldn’t be a Chevrolet 150 “because a 150 was a Ford truck…” “….and all six cylinders were V6s” Some of you guy give way too much credit to these government agencies!
In some states it seems to be like a sports physical. 1st they jump you thru hoops, then they put their hand on your wallet and say "Cough..."
That is not an argument. There is a database of every single VIN, serial, and identifying me mark on every vehicle, since vehicle one. That database is accessable to every DMV employee in the US. It is not a matter of knowledge, or opinion. Your numbers are compared to that database. If they don't match, you lose the car, and possibly your freedom.
I was lucky things turned out alright with my motorcycle purchase. On the other hand, not so much for Hot Turkey. Basically he got popped on a technicality, one that landed him in jail, placing him on probation for many years. I have learned many things from the HAMB, a lot from Gimpyshotrods. He try’s to talk sense about registration and the legality’s of doing it right for many years, but it falls on deaf ears .
Late to the dance with my shirt with a hole in it on but I have to agree that these days if the frame has a Clear serial number and the ***le matches that number it is better to repair the frame and avoid too many h***les later.
I am sure the person stamping #s back pre war did not think some thing as simple that a " O "instead of Zero Mattered or " I " vertical then a "" Dash "" or I for a 1 , I think even here on HAMB 7 as Dash , I have Seen & some time's argued hiccups with The Old mighty Dmv , & still here ***le frame S # not the same a body # most all before 1948 US vehicles .
I have half a mind to make some calls to ask some hard questions, and the other half of that mind that says, don't bother I'm sure it'll all work out. This whole frame thing...with as much authority as the next guy to speak his mind freely, could you imagine that guys job stamping frames? How was your day honey? Judging by the scar's to my frame it must have been a hard one. I'm going to call him Nick. Nick must have been one eyed and shaky from smashing fingers cause be mauled those imprints into my frame and one could only hope he wrote them into the history book correctly. I'm almost sure he went an stopped for beers when the work bell rang. Anyways... With the price of new rails, weighed against the cost to make rusty suitable for fixing, most would choose to swap, so the questions becomes, what's more valuable, the egg or the shell that supports it? I'm thinking the cops will run a make and model against stolen, and run the name of the guy trying and if either comes up sketchy, there's the problem. Maybe that's my problem, I'm not thinking shady stolen or sketchy because I'm Canadian and not exposed to the big city crime found in big American cities??? Instead I see more difficult, more bureaucracy, more expense. I see it creates a job that is supposed to comfort us and make us feel safer by thinking we'll get back what stolen when the reality is that's rarely the case. While the stupid get caught and make the news, the rest don't. They get away with it. My buddy farms north of the city and told me a neighbor reported to the RCMP footprint tracks in the snow going into a field grainery...turns out they were stashing stolen goods inside. So what's my point? The point is I'm not going to think the frame would have been stolen, and I'm sure as hell too cheap to pay thinking it's something I need to check, and I'm unlikely to worry about it past a second thought because I like to think I am smart enough to cover my bases if not my tracks. HA!
I would do a VIN verification with the old frame and then cut out the VIN number and surrounding metal and weld it into a new frame. That worked for me here in California. I was actually able to have a CHP officer come to my house and do the verification.
That meets the legal definition of VIN tampering, and that is a felony in all 50 states. Maybe don't admit this on a website that is open to the public.
Definitely would not be on a social network announcing that and I'm sure he did not tell CHP , if so I don not know even Sheriff Andy Griffith would be understanding ,
Because we are now giving out legal opinions... In California, Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) tampering is illegal under several sections of the Vehicle Code (specifically VC 10750, 10802, and 10803), defined broadly as the intentional and unauthorized altering, destroying, defacing, or removing of a vehicle's identifying numbers or marks. The legal definition focuses on intent and authorization: it is illegal to change a VIN without written permission from the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV). Primary Legal Definitions VC 10750: Addresses general tampering, making it a misdemeanor to intentionally deface, destroy, or alter a vehicle's identifying numbers without DMV authorization. VC 10802: A more serious offense, it prohibits knowingly altering or removing a VIN with the intent to misrepresent the vehicle's iden***y for purposes of sale or transfer. VC 10803: Makes it a crime to possess or purchase vehicles or parts with tampered VINs, knowing they are altered, with intent to resell. Key Elements Legal definitions of VIN tampering generally require: An intentional act to alter or destroy the VIN. Performance of this act without DMV authorization. For VC 10802/10803, knowledge of the tampering and intent to defraud or hide the vehicle's iden***y for sale/transfer is necessary. Examples of Tampering Examples include replacing a VIN plate, grinding down a VIN, or stamping an unauthorized number on a vehicle. Possession of multiple parts with altered VINs is also included. Defenses and Exceptions Possible defenses include accidental damage, as it lacks intent. Restoring a VIN is permissible with DMV authorization. Being unaware that a VIN was already tampered with before acquiring a vehicle is a defense under VC 10802. Vehicle manufacturers are exempt when ***igning new VINs to new vehicles. Penalties Penalties vary by section: VC 10750: A misdemeanor, punishable by up to a year in jail and/or a fine up to $1,000. VC 10802: A wobbler (felony or misdemeanor) with potential for felony jail sentences of up to 3 years and fines up to $25,000. VC 10803: Also a wobbler, with potential for felony charges and higher fines, particularly for multiple tampered parts.
This if you are so worried about, but like others, I wouldn't be. The OP lives in South Carolina according to his avatar, so the DMV law of other states doesn't matter. There are now more '32 roadsters running around than Ford ever made. These owners must be using VIN's other than roadsters on these cars.
I always grind my teeth a little when I see some one doing frame welding. It was a little difficult to tell in the pictures but if you are using the Short Arc process, my teeth grinding gets worse. Short arc is that copper colored solid wire you weld with a MIG (GMAW) gun, typically with CO2 gas or some variation of mixed gas. The term "Short Arc" comes from the fact that the wire touches the base metal and short circuits until the power source builds enough amperage to melt the wire to form a puddle. This sequence happens repeatedly throughout the weld and every time it short circuits 60Hz there is lack of fusion in the weld. An x-ray will show a dark spot wherever this occurs, a lack of fusion spot. A frame should not be welded in a straight vertical line, all of the fatigue stresses are in a line in that scenario, an angled cut welded with a low hydrogen electrode or FCAW-G is always a better weld than Short Arc.
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