49-54 Chevy Frame Question

I’ll offer an opinion. I think your walking into a big dose of whoop ***!

 

No doubt. There's no other way about it.. this is a giant can of whoop *** coming my way. Any advice on what to consider a no go? I will look at it today at 12pm. It's priced pretty damn well, hell if I took the body right off the frame and just had the body and gl*** with that chop, that alone would cost me $12k or more here in San Diego and I would be paying only $10,500 for this entire project. I saw this other one very similarly chopped in San Diego, with just the front and rear gl*** only, the original inline 6, albeit c-notched in the back (though on coilovers) and the guy would include a Mustang II front end kit and LS engine all for $23,000. I p***ed based on a couple other issues and determined the project would come out too high with paint and body and interior required. This one that I'm looking at today, I imagine I could finish entirely in the mid/upper $40k range with paint/body/interior and that fits the budget (though at the limit and highly depending on how to deal with that frame kickout showing which a shop would need to do)

If it drives ok... and the wheels are centered in the fender opening and the front tires don't rub too much when turning.. it might be good enough for me to get it and drive it and with time look into getting the ch***is mod done so it hides that kickout that would drive me nuts... or just sell it and unload it and probably lose no money at all if a shop tells me it will cost too much. I could also just keep it a project car forever and put steel rims or chrome smoothies, white wall tires, and leave it as is and accept the frame kickout showing... What I don't want is to put a huge amount of money in paint/body/interior and have the kickout bugging me.

 

...i'D LOOK FOR A GOOD ORIGINAL CAR AND START OVER...

 

too late I bought it and in transit with it back to San Diego.

 

Have fun keep us posted.

 

Thanks! On my way back to San Diego I was thinking about what it would cost/take to switch the body over to a stock frame with M2. I don't think I could find the manpower to help me do something like that and I'm sure a shop would charge a lot... and also I'm not sure what equipment is needed to take a car body off the frame as I've never done that.

 

Alright so it arrived.. the guy was nice enough to trailer it for me here to San Diego. I spent $10,500 in total... pretty decent deal (I think) for SoCal!! Something else I looked at similar to this in a similar state with the chop and no side gl*** was going for $23k and it had the stock inline 6, albeit it wasn't mangled with a g-body frame.

It needs a lot of work but think I could unload this and not lose too much money if I didn't want to keep it. It didn't drive well as the battery wasn't holding a charge too well, it seemed really hard to steer a bit and the motor ran for a bit but shut off at idle a couple times. They installed the shift lever incorrectly so I couldn't test reverse. I think that type of mechanical stuff I can figure out.

Here's a photo of it. The front wheel looks more or less centered to my eyes when I was checking it out and deciding whether to get it or not.



The frame kickout would probably move back easily without needing to mess with the floors. It definitely was not channeled as I suspected and I don't think its worth putting the money into it to channel but maybe I have to put airbags in first and see how the stance is. Another option would be to run the box tubing on the inside and cut the outside so its not as visible. If the body is painted a dark color the frame isn't too visible.









It s****ed trying to get into the driveway, the rear is quite low. I'll need to think of the next steps carefully. Perhaps make sure the motor runs ok, get a bench seat to bolt in (I don't like the thunderbird bucket seats in it) and start going through it. Maybe get airshocks, airbags and put a schrader valve for now or a spacer for the rear so it's not sitting so low. I'm not even sure how I'm going to get a jack underneath, the frame on the sides is maybe 2.5 inches from the ground. Maybe I could get 15" rims (steelies or chrome smoothies) and put some bias ply on it.

I don't feel comfortable driving it onto the street yet but I can (once I figure out the reverse/lever issue) get it in and out of my garage onto the driveway and back in as I work things out.

First thing's first, I'll either need to get a low profile jack, or take the rear bumper off and even that might not work.

 

Thanks!

I don't even have 1-2 friends I could invite over I need to work on that more than I need to work on this car!

 

If I correctly understand your situation, you are a bit short of skills, friends to help you and a place and equipment to do large projects.

As the car sits, it is Kooler looking than 99% of the local Cars and Coffee.

Paint the "offending" frame kick-out flat black - hopefully it will visually recede into the front wheel well. Drive it for a while. The car will tell you what in needs.

If anyone comments on the kick-out, tell them it was "Purposed engineered as a Richard Head detector". Then wait for the realization that you correctly called them out as a "**** HEAD" .

Russ

 

It takes time but I have jacked and blocked till I got the body off.

 

Haha thanks! I was talking to the guy that I got it from who helped me get it here and he said to get a Miller 135 and learn to weld and get an extension chord made to run from the panel outside the front of my house and to my driveway. The reason I haven't done any welding is I was thinking my garage electricals aren't 20 A (I think they are 15 A) and I didn't want to pay an electrician to do all the upgrade work. Perhaps he's right though and I can start practicing on stuff and then I can start fixing things.

I have no intention to deal with the frame kickout right now. The car needs a lot of other things first, but I do think it can be dealt with easily by someone with really good welding skills/equipment.. that's if I don't channel the car. It might be worth switching to a stock frame and mustang II but I'm going to have to get this car driving a little bit and feel like I like it enough first. I love the chop though!

 

Oh wow, what did you use to get the body that high though? I'm guessing quite a number of friends?

 

Looks to me like the front tires are forward in the wheel opening a bit, maybe an inch or two. The easy fix on the frame kick out might be to move the back edge of the wheel opening in the fender forward. You should be able to move it nearly as far forward as the frame kick out is. Won't help the side rails hanging out under the rockers though. Whom ever did the frame swap must have been a 1st timer. But like you said, there are other much higher priorities for right now.

If the ground clearance on the side rails is only 2.5" off the ground, there must be some serious modifications to the rear suspension. It should be a coil suspension, so a set of air bags to replace the springs would probably be the way to go there. When you can get under the car, you may want to check the driveshaft clearance to the floor pan. With that little ground clearance on the frame rails, channeling the car would make it much worse.

It is not advised to use an extension cord with a welder unless it is monster size wire gauge cord, with a 110 v cord, you start loosing amps with each foot of length. Even if the breaker is a 20 amp, most heavy duty 25' long 110 v extension cords are only rated at 15 amps. The biggest issue with the 110V welders is getting enough power to run them correctly, and a 110 volt extension cord probably won't do that. Use some of your car budget to upgrade at least one outlet in the garage to 30 amps, it will pay you back much faster then you think, if you start paying a welder to do all your welding.

Get the car mechanically correct (do yourself a favor and check the brakes while your checking the other mechanical stuff), get the steering sorted out so it is correct, get a seat you feel comfortable with, then drive it a bit.

 

Thanks for all the advice. I think the front wheels may be a little forward by an inch or two but it's hard to tell unless I measure from some point. Those are 14" rims on it. I wonder if switching to 15" will make anything worse, or if it will help with getting a floor jack underneath. I'm still lost on how I can get the car on jack stands given my floor jack isn't a low profile one. I'm not even sure a low profile jack could get in from the sides. I wonder if it has dropped spindles or maybe its supposed to have 15" rims/tires not 14" so there is more ground clearance. I'm a little antsy to look underneath and see what else I'm going to need to deal with.

First I want to figure out how to get it on jackstands, then I need to figure out how to get set up for welding (and learning). For now, I might put airbags in the back and put a schrader valve on them so I can raise it and get it out of my driveway.

Do you think I should have 220 installed in my garage? I'm not sure that's overkill though? I don't see myself ever doing ch***is type work as a beginner. I probably would never be able to beg someone with a 220V welder to come help me with anything. I'll have plenty of odds and ends to weld up (bumper brackets, etc) and maybe a 110V welder will suffice? The issue is the electrical panel is on the other corner of my house opposite of the garage. I'm not sure if upgrading to a 30A outlet is something I can do. I've installed an attic fan and installed an outlet for it which was a 15A one.

I think what has to happen is I need to form a bond with this car.. ideally by driving it a little even if just around the block.. then I can better decide what to do about the frame and/or fender opening edge.

 

If you can get the car running long enough, try setting a 2" thick piece of wood in front of all 4 tires (or at least both rear or both front tires) and drive the car up onto the 2" thick wood. Should get you high enough to get the jack under the frame.

I'm not a big fan of a 110 volt welder, but there are a lot of guys that use them. If you go with a 110 (or any) welder, buy a name brand that you can buy consumables for locally, and pay real close attention to the duty cycle of the welder. A 20% duty cycle means to can only weld 2 minutes out of every 10 minutes the welder is turned on, even the cheap 220 welders only have a 60% duty cycle (weld 6 minutes for every 10 minutes the welder is turned on), exceeding the duty cycle can kill the welders in less then a year. For most 110V welders I've seen, 1/8" thick metal is about the max thickness they can handle.

Going from 14" to 15" wheels will only raise the car up a 1/2" and will require new tires. If the new tires are shorter in height then the old tires were, the change in the wheel diameter may not make any difference, or may actually make it worse.

I do agree its best to get to know the car before you change up a bunch of stuff.

 

Thanks, I might be able to try the 2" thick pieces of wood but the car doesn't have reverse so I'll have to figure out if its just a link adjustment (which the lever is totally reversed and park is all the way right not left!). I wonder if there's any type of compressed air jack I can get to help with this as well.

That makes sense with the welder. I'm not sure what I would be welding that would be thicker than 1/8". I think bumper brackets are likely right at the 1/8th inch thickness? I could look to get 220 v installed, but I don't want to touch anything structural as a novice and I'm not sure I could convince any experience welder to come do the ch***is mod for me inside my garage.. although that could be cheaper than taking it to a shop hmmm.

That makes sense going from 14" to 15" would only get it half an inch higher. The radials that are on it look a little low (air) so maybe i can get a little if I inflate them. It looks to me that bias ply tires would give me a lot more outer diameter than radials (and give me the look I want with white walls) and help get the frame higher. I wonder if that's worth pursuing. With airbags maybe it would drop low enough still when I want it low.

The guy gave me a brand new set of radial white walls but I think they are 14" so that won't help much. Maybe I could sell them to offset getting new bias ply and chrome smoothie or 15" chevy steel rims.

 

Hey isn't that my car?

 

You know you could probably build some inner fenders to hide that frame section

 

It might be . I'm not sure.

 

There’s that option as well the guy who sold it to me had mentioned. I think it would look better with the frame kick out further back and the stock looking panel.

 

I should mention me and fastcar1953s banter about my 54 that I bought from him is not irrelevant to this thread. When I bought it the body was on the ground next to the frame. Not only was he nice enough to deliver it to me but he lifted the body onto the frame without Bolting or together. While that sounds a bit snarky it isn't. Saved me a good bit of work. So once it arrived it wasn't lined up right. But was incredibly easy to maneuver into place by myself once one bolt was in the rest pretty much lined themselves up. It wasn't like my 86 Cutl***(g body like your frame) where it needed to be really close. I could easily slide it ten inches if needed. So ***uming you can come up with the jack stands etc a one man frame swap is easily doable

 

Thanks, actually you know what, the guy left me some stands he built that look like they could lift the body up as they have a large nut you can rotate to raise them. I would have to take the motor out and trans first though so I could slide the frame out.





The bigger problem is he told me that the floor/pan is a blend of the original and g-body so to go back to stock, not only am I going to have to swap the frame, I would have to deal with the floor pan as well. For now I think I'll try to make what I have work so I can drive the car (eventually) and see if I want to keep this or not and from there determine leaving the g-body frame or trying to go back to stock. I'll lose motivation fast if I don't drive this thing soon, it's close I just don't want to kill myself or someone else.

First thing is figuring out how to get this damn thing on jackstands in the first place... I haven't had time but I'm hoping I can inflate the tires more (they are low) and maybe slide a scissor jack underneath and place some wood blocks then come back with a floor jack. If not I'll have to get car ramps.

I'm antsy to look underneath and see what I'm up against to get the car driving on the street safely. When I went in my garage the last couple of times I liked looking at the chop though

 

Drive the front wheels onto 2×4s. Then Jack up by front cross member

 

What column is in the car?

 

Not sure!

 

I managed to get the front on jacks so I could look underneath. I didn’t figure out how to get the rear on jacks.

It looks like someone laid the body on the frame and only bolted it to the frame ahead of the rear wheel openings and at the very back.

they put a piece of plywood to rest the trans on. It looks like the crossmember didn’t align with the 700r4 and it looks like the cross member was moved.

I’ll provide photos below.

thus far I captured the following to get it driveable (although it’s a miracle the seller took me around the block in it!)

1. make some type of mounts for the body to frame in the middle and front part of the cab.
2. Put a bench seat in or figure out how to bolt the thunderbird seat (note I hate bucket seats)
3. Fix the column shifter. It’s reversed and maybe i can switch the orientation of the shifter arm at the trans (will try tomorrow evening)
4. Install airbags or find out if the coils were cut and put something to lift the rear for clearance for now.
5. Fix the cross member or make some type of adapter for the trans to mount on properly on the crossmember.
6. Reinforce the steering column mount to frame they put in. Him and his friend put this in when I got there so we could try to drive it and steer it.

That’s all just to drive around the block not anywhere else with traffic then the list will grow.

Bottom line I’m feeling uncomfortable with this project. Metal fabrication is not in my immediate future. Taking the springs out has me nervous but maybe doable. I don’t mind learning to weld so I can make bumper brackets and fix the grill ***embly but not for anything body or frame related.

The car has a nice chop and gl***. The motor seems decent and ran and sounded good and no leaks at all! I got this at $10,500 and might be dreaming to finish it at mid $40k. A fellow HAMBer showed me photos of a car that came out great and the body, paint, interior ran $20k which is very reasonable. I’m not sure the cost to have someone make body mounts and fix the transmission cross member.

I’m tempted to resell it for the $10,500 I paid, disclose the discoveries I made, and perhaps someone with metal working abilities can continue on it.

now I’m in a bad mood ‍

 

Got a pic of the column? And yeah definitely add some body mounts. I do four total in the middle. You can get a cross member to direct swap a 700r4 into a g body

 

On the shifter. Flip arm around on trans. Possible you'll need a longer rod