Featured Hot Rods 354 Hemi vs SBC

the way i figure it, you gotta want a hemi, if you have to ask, you're asking for what they want. i'm not convinced you really want one and that's ok too.
almost 25 years ago i put a 291 desoto firedome in my 46 ford but one was not enough, i wanted another, so i picked up a 354 truck motor and a ready to go 6:71 for a model A coupe.
an unforseen turn of events and i had to sell off that project, Rich B purchased the hemi for his car. i eventually ended up with a 241 dodge redram, rebuilt it and put that in a 27 T roadster on 32 frame.
but what i really want is a 392 and a good friend thinks i should have his so it's time to move some stuff to make room for it.
It's ok to take the easy way out and run a sbc, me, i wanted a hemi, besides, what am i going to do with all these intakes?

 

A momentary diversion. The car in my avatar, being a plebian Biscayne, ran a lowly stock 230 when I bought it. Figured I'd drive it until that gave up and put in a small block. Except, when the time came, I ended up building a pretty hot 292 inline six. Forged internals, big cam, lots of head work including lump ports and V8 valves, split exhaust manifolds, Offy intake and a 4bbl carb. Sounded *****in', got 16-19 MPG, pulled pretty well (similar builds were 300hp/300tq)....and it was a PITA because I'd taken it to the edge of streetable power. Then the motor started consuming a quart of oil every 400 miles, and it needed a rebuild. I could be 5-8K into a rebuild on a motor that was fun but very quirky and needed constant attention, or I could be 5-8K into a crate SBC that anyone can find parts for, make another 60hp and 100tq out of, will be stone reliable for the likely duration of time I'll be above dirt and comes with a damn warranty.

Is a hot inline the same as a Hemi? Not even close.

Is there value in having a known quan***y and being to just get in your old car to drive it when you, where you want, and not having to really think about it or worry about not getting home? Absolutely.

For me, my budget, and the potential for being to just enjoy my damn car, the SBC was the right choice for me. Your mileage may vary. Batteries not included. Some ***embly required. Caveat emptor.

 

My avatar roadster has a 354 that started life powering a 58 2 1/2 Dodge truck. Only the block and crankshaft are left from the original engine. I found a set of 354 heads which took forever. It seems that they were popular to run on 392 drag motors. A friend found a pair at a somewhat good price. They had been ported and modified with 426 valves. I got the roadster on the road in 2009 and it has performed flawlessly ever since. It has gone all over the western states and keeps on working great. I have built many engines over my 78 year, stock, modified, and race, but never a real early hemi. After two years of fruitless effort my neighbor told me he had an unknown hemi on his patio and knew nothing about other that it was given to him by a young guy living in an apartment and stored it underneath a staircase. The manager told him that it had to do because it was an attractive neusence that could get kids messing with it hurt if it fell on one of them. Soo, I dragged it home and found out that it was originally in that truck. It didn't take me long to scoop it up and haul it home. That's when I realized that early hemis are made of a rare alloy known as "unobtanium"! The heads were industrial and not good for performance. I began a search for correct '56 p***enger car heads. Anyone having a set wanted a fortune for them. It seems that drag racers used them on 392s because they "flowed" better than other heads. I was good friends with the late Joe Reath and told him about my problem. His reply was, "you ever hear about Don Garlits?" He ran 392 heads on 392s and beat everybody! Joe had a pair of 354 heads stashed away and made me a deal on them. They had been ported and 426 valves installed. He made me a sweetheart deal and I ******ed them up. I have them on my avatar roadster and love them! People ask me how fast the car goes and I tell them, "fast enough to scare the hell out of you!". I am a happy roadster owner for sure!

 

That's quite the collection!

 

Hot rodding shouldn't be boring. I don't give two ****s about how much power or how cheap they are, Chevy's are damn boring. The reality is, if you make 200 HP or 2,000, how much are you really going to use. Unless you're racing, it doesn't matter. Hot rodding isn't cheap, I don't care what you build. Use the motor that you want, not what the local cars and coffee crowd are impressed with. ****, my little 97 HP 218 flathead gets around fine and puts a smile on my face every time I fire it up. Your car, your decision.

 

I am just not a Hemi guy; I never have been never will be.

If it was a SBC or a Polysphere

Polysphere all day!



Somewhere along the way many people have gotten the idea a Small Block Chevy in a hot rod is boring!

If built with the period correct speed parts A Small Block can be just a cool as any other vintage hot rod engine out there!


The "Ricky Nelson" roadster

 

"I'm not a Hemi guy, Polysphere all day"
Kind of like saying you're not a 327/350 HP chevy fan but prefer the 305 Chevy v8.
The Polyspheric engines, while sharing the same block and crankshaft parts as the Hemi engines, differ in their cylinder heads, pushrods, exhaust manifolds, and pistons. They feature polyspherical-shaped combustion chambers, which are formed by two shallow concave domes where the intake and exhaust valve seats are located. This design choice led to a less sophisticated rocker setup, which was also cheaper to produce and lighter. The Polyspheric engines were marketed as lower-cost alternatives to the Hemi engines and were used in various Chrysler models, including Dodge and Plymouth.

 

I was referring to the m***ive size and weight of the Heim, in practical the heads!

 

BBC water pump conversion and aluminum heads ( only $3300) takes a lot of weight off and shortens length about 1 1/2 inches.

 

'only'

 

its an easy choice MOPAR.

 

Im hoping to put a 331 in my 30 Model A truck . The ONLY reason is for looks .
I have a original running non extended bell 331 but im looking at a chunk to dress it to look good, hook a modern trans to it , and hope it dosent take a dump 500 miles later.


Ill be giving up about 300 HP and gaining about 200 pounds and likely 3000 RPM to red line compared to a aluminum head SBC I have on the stand here .
Ill also be giving up a lot of cash to get it in the truck. At $1000 for a trans adapter, ill likely have to spend $1000 or more for a cool intake as the irion 2bbl is not going to cut it.
Ill run a stock water pump and timing cover
Thats not even getting into the cost to build a reliable hemi thats even stockish .

There is nothing boring going through the gears woth a high RPM SBC that makes 450 or much more HP .

When I think traditional hot rod the SBC comes in second after a flat head and at 62 I grew up after the flat head was pretty much dead as a performance engine. Guys running them today are doing ot for looks and tradition. Thats great .
Fact is I have seen more flat head powered cars now than I did in the 70's and 80's .

I came home from the hospital after my birth in 1963 in a Willys Jeep wagon with a SBC in it . It wasent done by dad for looks it was done becuase it was the best fitting , most reliable, most power per pound and easy option .

There is a reason 98% sprint cars still run a SBC .

Slow and heavy is also boring.

If I had the OPs car id not mess with the hood or make many changes. Id build the HEMI then look for something cool like a roadster or vintage race car looking project .

 

At the local cruise in, it's the difference between MEH, and COOL!

 

there's a reason they're called "Belly ****ons'" everyone has one, gets boring in a hurry.

 

if it were my car already running and driving and sorted out, I’d just stick with what it is.

 

What was the original "belly ****on " engine? The beloved Ford flathead.

 

When the local hillbily kids ax me if have a 454 in my old chevy k20 4x4 ... I always tell them that I have a 392 chrysler hemi in it ... and they give me a blank stare

 

Where are you seeing aluminum heads for $3,300?

 

is that low?

 

Maybe you can get bare castings for that little, but a bolt-on set, delivered, will be about $5k.

 

In stock and on the shelf. Bolt on $4300
https://www.hothemiheads.com/cylinder_heads/aluminum_heads_street.html

 

I am in the camp of keeping the small block in your running/driving car & build another car for the Hemi. Something that looks good without a hood/sides so it can be seen.

God Bless
Bill
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...ar-transport-hauling-open-or-enclosed.614419/

 

$$$ for $$$
Hemi head the Chevy ,
Gen 1 sbc Rare but out there.
Hemi heads for
Gen 1 BB & Ls with a carb
Almost 100% any show you may drop into , Not another Belly ****on !

 

I changed my vote from the hemi to the small block. Reading about the drivability and fitment issues that come with the bigger engine is what did it. That’s a really nice car, I wouldn’t make such radical changes.

 

Nice kit. Now add in the machine shop expense to rebuild the long block and cylinder heads to handle that much boost.
Yes I do consider a 383 naturally aspirated 500 HP engine a mild build. They are available by mail order from the leading speed parts distributors.

 

Tax and shipping are a thing.

 

Only $3,300? $3,300 is a lot of money! I don't have that much in my entire 261 race engine build!

That is about three weeks' pay before taxes for me, and many others, so it is more like a month's pay and at that I would have to forgo luxury items like buying food, paying my bills, buying gasoline so I can get to work.
There in lays the problem there is such a disconnect with many people about how expensive things have gotten!

Cash is difficult come up with, but I can trade!

I was able to build my 261 because I built a Jib crane for my machine shop for machine work.
As much as I like Summit and Speedway Motors, I can trade with them.

Also, we are talking period correct hot rods and hot rodding, we are trying to replicate and recreate hot rods as they were built in the 40, 50, and early 60s.

To the best of my knowledge there were no aluminum hemi heads in that era (if there were they were full on race components that were out of the reach of the average guy), and if you wanted to do something like a water pump conversion you built it yourself, you did go to a catalog, or a guess people go to their smart phone an order it.

 

Like moving the starter from the driver's side of my '52 hemi to the p***enger side to make room for the Corvair steering gear by welding/bolting a new starter housing onto the extended flywheel housing bottom half?