metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

I really don't think its a matter of if it ****s or not. Its a matter of how bad it will ****. Does anyone know if a machine shop could true the wheels if they are SUPER ****ed up?

 

if this actually gets used by someone on here and they say its worth the money for a beginners wheel then thats what im gonna do...i'll have the shop where i work turn the wheels and balance them out so they are true...just waiting on the first review

 

It seems to me Brent you are missing the point. HAMB'r opinion is typically given in an unbiased br*** tacks kind of way. You can count on product reviews being better than a consumer reports article. I had the HF bead roller long before I was on this board, but would have bought it sooner had I read all the posts on it. There is less BS in in a HAMB review and thats the way we like it.

 

I was thinking the exact opposite.

 

I'll try to be "nice" but, i really dont see the point in the arguement over where these things are made.. but I digress..

in response to unk ian..
1. yes the upper and lower yokes are welded.. big deal.. IF you look at some of the USA made ewheels they too are WELDED.. My current setup is welded.

2. the MAJORITy of work folks are going to do with THIS quality (and price level) ewheel will be smaller patch panels and such.. that said.. 2 inch wide wheels are perfectly acceptable. IF you were going to do a full roof section, a hood etc etc.. you would certainly want a better and bigger machine.. (but thats not the point of this machine)

like IAN I know a few people who have Super large upper anvils etc etc..

for example randy f. (from IN) has a 8 inch wide upper wheel, I also know that his frame has a 52 inch depth.. AND I stood in his shop as it was being built.. (however when was the last time he (or anyone wheeled something that wide?)

that said.. you dont really NEED a Huge ewheel for 99% of all the work 99% of the folks here (or anywhere are going to do)

3. i agree that the frame isnt stiff enough.. thats why i only bought the wheels (which are here now) and WHY If i bought the entire machine I would certainly REBUILD the frame..

4. the lower wheels from HF DO have bearings, a quick inspection this afternoon confirmed that the fit of the axles to the bearings is very tight
(I realize that it will take some time to confirm that they stay that way.. BUT.. again.. for the price. some concessions need to be expected..

5. long and short, as promised I will try the wheels and report back here as soon as I am able..


at this point I need to make a lower "yoke" for the wheels and ensure that the "yoke" is centered etc etc..

AS suggested I will likely bolt my YOKE together.. not because it will necessarily be better, but rather because It should be easier for me, given the tools at my disposal..

and as for Kerry Pinkerton's review.. (whom I have had the good fortune to meet on several occasions, and whom manufactures his own imperial ewheels)

I know JUST by the photos that kerry's products are FAR superior, however he is in another PRICE bracket..


finally..

ONE PARTING THOUGHT (actually a quote from wray)


"some of the finest automobile bodies ever produced were created with simple hand tools and a STUMP.. dont think you need 1000's of dollars worth of equiptment to do this type of work.."

 

The best shaper I ever had the pleasure to meet in person was Fay Butler in his east coast shop. I begged for an apprenticeship. He had first cl*** tools and is also an educated man. Show me a guy making deusenberg fenders with a stump.

 

if the wheels **** bad then what about changing them to these....if they fit.
http://www.lowbucktools.com/englishkit.html

 

Um, actually, Randy is from Illinois Also, if I recall correctly, his e-wheel throat is closer to 60", I can find out the actual size if it's deemed necessary. We talked about it late last month when I was down there, but I forget now.

The last time he wheeled anything that big? Apparently he did a Model A roof insert last fall that worked best by going into the throat, rather than thru it, and he says he used every bit of it!

Well, you got me there ...................... but I can show you a guy making gorgeous steel Willys fenders with a stump - and a big *** e-wheel.

Tim D.

 

I'm just chiming in because all the cool guys are posting on this tired thread.

 

About narrow e-wheels, A 2" wide set feels much like using a 1" wide body hammer to smooth lumps. It works, but when you go to a wider hammer or a *******, you instantly know why they are better.

Sawracer, Fay Butler is a great metal shaper, but everyone has different ways of doing things. A claw hammer and a stump will make beautiful work in the hands of a good metal shaper. I'm sure Fay could do it.

I'm not any kind of tool snob, but I will shape metal with a piece of flat bar formed into a *******, a claw hammer and piece of sheet metal made into a shrinking disc before buying that slave labor piece of ****. For me, it's about ethics not the tool. For some it is about the cost of the tool and nothing else. For others it is about the quality or lack thereof. That's fine.

For that money and some ingenuity, a handy guy could make himself a nice helve hammer, and turn out some nice work fast.

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

 

how about a little more info on the anvils? i ***ume they'll need a polish, are they the dreaded full radius wheels, or did they have the smarts to include flats on them? have you spun them on a shaft to see how much runout there is?

 

Brent,
I agree with this statement. You cannot machine tight tolerences (read quality part) with a tool that will not hold the tolerences. Quality tools play a big part in the quality of the work produced. There are a couple of old adages:

"A craftsman is only as good as the quality of his tools."

also:

"A poor workman blames his tools."

I try NOT to buy poor quality tools. I've found that tools will outlast the project many, many times over. I have tools I bought as a kid, a long time ago both good quality and bad. I also have tools from my Dad, my father-in-law and my Grandfather. I also plan on p***ing down to my son, future son-in-law and future grandsons/grandaughters my tools. It is better to buy the best quality tool you can afford so you can use it on many projects or for a lifetime. Spend the money ONCE for a good tool not twice for poor ones. You'll have more money for the projects.

That said, small businesses are the backbone of the American economy. I will choose to buy from the local one store owner many more times before I buy from the nationwide megastore. You also get a better choice of products. There is only so much shelf space in the megastores and they are limited in what they can stock. You get a better and bigger selection by looking around and using the Internet.

 

there is a guy in pleasanthill ca named Kiril he makes 1930s mercedes fenders on a stump

 

Sure, all of the Harbor Freight tools are "Chung-Ho" quality, but they are very affordable. I bought the bead roller last year, but I have yet to get it reinforced and into service. When I make a hood for my 31 A I'll have to put a couple of beads into it

(....go to www.metalmeet.com for some info on modifying that tool.)

I bought my son Dan a set of body hammers and dollys for his birthday a year ago from HF and they are well finished tools that are forgings and seem to do good work...especially for a 13 year old kid and his first Model A....now he turns 14 tomorrow and has asked for "more sheetmetal parts for the 30 A Coupe".

And as you know, wheels are sort of tricky..they have to be set up perfectly or they just don't work. They'll ruin the steel...

I don't know if I'll ever really need one of these tools...as I work with Model A's and you can get a new door skin for $65 commercially made, die stamped. I'd think that the guys who work on custom parts might be able to use this tool more than I would.

I bought a shrinker-stretcher from Woodward Ave Tools last winter......it's the same as the one sold by Eastwood, but with one body to hold the jaws, Eastwood supplies two of them. This tool works very well...and it's a "Chung-Ho" tool also...

Most of the metal work I do these days is done with hand tools and files...I hammer and dolly and metal finish everything this way....most of the time I can do nice work that's filler-free.

 

Grumpyblues is a stand-up hot rodder...I've known him for a hundred years...

And his opinion is unbiased...

As a matter of fact, old Grumpy could probably build a rightous Hot Rod for little or nothing with the s**** I've got in my garage...if his A Bone based bucket that he built a few years back is any indication of his talent....He's the "Boyd" of low buck rodding....

Just my humble opinion....

 

My personal preferance against welded yokes
is based on two points.

1-If the alignment isn't close enough,you'll have fun
trying to adjust it.One of the guys on Chopperweb.net bought one,American made nice heavy frame,welded yokes;the alignment was off,couldn't adjust it.

2-You can't swivel the yokes,relative to the frame,to work on large awkward shapes.John Crosley has done skins for airplane wings,wheeling front to back on the skin,no problems on his 24" English wheel.The skins were over 10' long.Can't do that if the yokes are welded.Some people prefer to set theirs at 45 degrees
to the frame for the same reason.

Doesn't matter what the frame design,you could come across a shape that won't fit.With a bolt on yokes you have more options,including switching upper wheels.I think I've got 3 different soft upper wheels,made from rubber caster wheels,in addition to my 3" x 6" steel wheel.I don't think they will fit a 2" yoke.

 

At least one guy there has recieved his "english wheel",
and a couple more have recieved the anvils.

And they are not impressed so far.

 

From MetalMeet.com:

"True Radius anvils",common on flexible frames.

The "hardened anvils" are only 31 RC.

.006" to .009" TIR run out on the wheels.

"****py bearings". ID varies by .002"

Doubts raised as to the thickness of tubing used in the frame.
Advertised as 1/4".

"...very sloppy and loose, missing parts, bent top wheel straps, every machined part is way to sloppy, bearings are rough,..."
-----------
Can it be "fixed",sure.With enough time and effort.
But if you have the resources to do that,
you can make your own,better,from Scratch.

 

Is 6 thousanth's of an inch runout really that bad. Last time I looked, I think that is about the width of a hair. Carl Hagan

 

.He's the "Boyd" of low buck rodding....

Was that a compliment or an insult?

 

Definately not an insult. Just asking. 6 thousanths of an inch is an inch divided into 6 thousand, right? I've been watching this thread 'cause I'm interested in the outcome. Just didn't seem like too much slop to me. Just askin guys. Carl Hagan

 

It's not slop,it's run out,as in wobble up and down.
TIR is Total Indicator Reading.

1 thousandths of an inch is 1/1000 ,which is .001"
6 thousandths is 6/1000,or .006"

Now,imagine the upper wheel runs out .006",and the lower .009".
That could be as much as .015".How thick is your panel ? .030 ?

As you run you part through the wheels,the pressure on the panel
will increase and decrease.Makes it tough to get a nice smooth panel if you can't strectch it evenly.

This is not as noticable with a flimsy frame.

 

anymore news on this tool, anybody else that ordered one get theres?

 

got my lower anvils, made a yoke for them to sit in and welded the yoke into my homemade e-wheel..

I have used the LOWER ANVILS abit on some small test pieces, and I honestly like them alot..

in my opinion THE ANVILS were well worth the 80.00 it cost to buy them



However..
I see sheetmetal work as an "art" different from "machining"

therefore the "runnout" mentioned above is of little concern to me..

and as mentioned..

these are certainly "entry level parts" and I am certain IF and when I need to use the wheel MORE I may would be forced to step up for better tooling..

However.. these would certainly fill the need for 80% of the people here on this board..

few will ever attempt to wheel an entire roof filler panel.. or a fender etc etc..

however.. THE FRAME OF THE E-WHEEL that HF sells looks like JUNK,

It may be able to be modified (like the HF bead roller) but.. it THINK would take some work..

I am glad that I already had my ewheel built..

 

Anyone use this yet?? 6 pages and nothing factual about the tool in question beside speculation. Amazing.

 

Mine was shipped January 10. About a week later I get a call saying it's 80 miles away at the depot and damaged. They send it back to H.F. It's reshipped eventually and I start tracking again. It's 300 miles away and hasn't moved in 2 days. I call today and the lady says it;s damaged and they'll have to return it to the shipper. I said "again"? She apoligized but I still haven't got mine. If I'm lucky I may have it by the end of February.

 

this thread is like the everlasting gobstopper, it lasts forever

 

man, i need a nap after sifting through this thread....

 

Yeah, me too. So tired of speculation and politics. Been following this post since the beginning and have'nt heard any first hand user comments, so I said F-it and ordered one, and a shrinker/stretcher, and a planisher. All for less than a weld your own kit.
You guys can't tell me that the Eastwood Rinky-dink benchtop with the tiny diameter wheels, and tiny tubing is a better tool than this. Especially at the cost. I am completely willing to spend a few hours beefing this thing up. My H.F. bead roller, and bench brake work just fine after a little "tuning", and I'm fairly confident this will too. So, I'll let you guys know what happens when I get mine.

Chris

 

wake me up when its over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!