I want to box the frame on my cutl*** everyone says I should use 1/8" metal for the boxing plates which is about a 11ga My welder is a MIG that says it can only do up to 14ga on the suggested settings chart. It can do up to 1/4 inch with some flux core wire. Would it be ok to use the flux wire or can I double p*** or something with the MIG wire?
i say since its not actually supporting anything, youll be ok just to weld it, its only going to slightly add to the support, but not do much else. it might even start cracking. id find someone with an old arch welder laying around. start going to yard sales. esp the ones with the old widows.
You can use the flux core wire but you will probly get some slag. the weld won't look as good as mig but it will weld thicker metal. you will probly have to change the wire liner and contact tip also. depending on your welder you may have to change the polarity from pos pos neg neg to pos neg neg pos. ohh and the rotor is different to. I do agree that heating the base metal before you mig it is prob best.
I wouldn't use flux core if I were you, that's just **** in my opinion. I also don't think that boxing a Cutl*** frame ain't gona add anything but weight.
There is no reason to box a cutl*** frame, unless you are running multiple engines in a purely drag ch***is.
There are two kinds of flux cored wire... gas and gasless or dual shield. I ***ume you are talking about the inexpensive gasless fluxcore wire that is supplied with most new gasless migs machines.... As others have stated, you can preheat your work area first which goes a long way in laying in a fluxcore p***. One thing to consider.. Just tack your boxing plates in for now with the fluxcore and see if you can find someone with a mig to weld it up for you. ....or you can opt for the gas kit and real mig wire (easy grind by esab) for your welder, you will be able to get a far superior weld with better penetration (adhesion) even on a small 110 volt unit. I have been able to weld 1/4 steel (home made 2X4 bumpers) by using a real good preheat and a very hot p*** or two with gasless flux core. One of the big problems with gasless flux core is that it can be an ugly and/or porous weld. By grinding all the rust and mill scale off first, (get down to shiney metal), you will enable your flux core weld to run in much cleaner, bite harder to the actual steel (no mill scale to burn thru first, which wastes the much needed heat of the puddle) and the weld will look much cleaner with less '****' floating to the surface of the molten puddle. The key here is in cleanliness, pre-heat and a hot p*** (or two). You are only dealing with 1/8th material so you should be able to achieve decent results with clean metal to start with. good luck. moe
I ***ume you've got one of the 110v wire welders. If so your biggest problem is going to be the "duty cycle" -- time spent welding/not welding. I had a 110 unit and it seemed every time I got a good puddle started and ran a short weld the unit would kick off and I'd have to wait for it to cool down. Real pain -- sold it and got 220v unit and am much happier. Think more in term of "long tack welds" with one of those. ;(
I have a Lincoln 135 and I can burn holes through 1/4" with gasless flux core and the welds can look really decent (especially if I'd take the time to put some spatter gel down). I only run into thermal shutdown after a good 12"-14" bead. Oh yeah, this is running through an extension cord too. Albeit a very expensive heavy duty 12GA extension cord. Seriously!
I used the 135 and hate that thing, even set on high to weld sheet metal I think it's useless, when you spot weld you have to wait too much to get good penetration, I like to weld with a big 220V Lincoln unit (can't remember the name) cause I prefere to weld hot for a short period of time instead of the opposite. I see guys using the same tuning I use to weld 18/19 gage to weld frames.
Well some articles from testing the brand new for 64 GTO some of the testers had to look under the car to see if there was actually a frame down there it was so flexy. (63 cars had unibody) The convertible and ElCaminos were factory boxed. In 65 they stiffened the frame somehow. seems it needed some stiffness. It must have some point to box in the frame. there is a lot of the pro-touring guys doing it. not that that is reason in itself and maybe those guys don't know what the **** they are doing. I don't know what I am doing I just want to stiffen up the frame so I can get it to handle real nice. and figured when the frame is stripped down it would be nice to reinforce it before painting. you may allready be familiar with the a-body frame but the middle (highlighted in red in photo) sections that run under the cabin of the body are not boxed just looking at them look very flexible. it may be faulty logic that because the convertibles have boxed in rails for strength that it is going to help a Post car like mine. If you know why its a waste lets hear some specific reasons with proof. if I sound like an *** I don't intend to I just want to know what you know and maybe it is just a waste of time and effort to box them.
I think this would stiffen the considerably. That being said you need to weld the plates correctly. You can do it with a 110 welder but not a cheap one. I haveand old lincoln 100 and have done a lot of frame work with it.
my welder is a Lincoln 3200HD its a 110 its not a piece of **** from harbor freight or something but not a real nice one either.
Boxing the frame will stiffen it. Other things you can do are to replace rubber body mounts with solid metal ones, and/or add a roll bar or cage. -Scott
If you "V" the area to be welded and do a multi-p*** weld then you should be fine. The ratings are usually for single p*** anyhow and you can usually weld thicker using multiple p***es to ensure proper penetration - plenty of instructions out there on how to do this...
Another thing to consider is that most 110 MIG welders don't have internal fans for cooling. A buddy of mine had an old Daytona like that and we stuck a fan out of a computer cabinet (make sure to use a 110 volt model) in it and the duty cycle shut down issue went away. cb_chief
First off, don't listen to people like this. In your situation where the welder is smaller than it should be flux core is a GREAT option. It bites more and has more dig, it's hotter, etc. There's a reason that a lot of structural welding is done with flux core you know. As mentioned by others, V Groove the areas to be welded, and get a oxy setup and preheat. Just heat until the parent metal starts to get a dim red glow to it and then run your welds in there. As long as you groove and preheat you'll be fine. What a lot of uninformed people don't understand is that ANY welder can get a job done. It's just a matter of how much preperation/work you have to do with it. You could theoretically weld 1" plate with that little **** welder you have.... though it would have to be 20 p***es, all preheated, and grooved properly. All having a big welder does is take out the amount of work/amount of prework. Also, the advice of cleaning prior to welding is GREAT advice, and should be followed ALL THE TIME! The cleaner your parent material is the less foreign inclusion you will get in your welds and the stronger they will be. Good luck!
vonmoldy, i started to use my 110 lincoln mig to box my frame with 3/16 steel and found it to be under powered even with stepping the plate out to form a fillet.i ended up using my 225 amp ac/dc miller stick welder with 3/16 6010 rod. weld only about an inch and a half at a time and skip around alot to avoid warping and twisting.by using a slight whipping motion and controling your arc, you will end up with a good strong weld without too much clean up. you should use 3/16 for the plates cause thats what gauge most early frames are. also you will have to adjust your amperage to where the rod runs best. i ran dc but you could run ac if thats the only machine you can get , you will just have to use 6011 rod cause 6010 dont run ac. mike
slow down, and let's take a look at what you've got, and where you are going. 64-67 a-body frames are virtually identical (68-72 a touch different) with the exception (like you mentioned) of El camino and Convertible which are boxed. will boxing your frame help you? Yes. but not much. what will help more? box your rear control arms (all 4) add a rear sway bar (I like addco) box the LOWER front a bones (pain in the ***, but worth it) add a fat front sway bar, and urethane on every bushing you can replace (gonna have problems with the body mounts unless you go with prothane.) I gotta run home. more on this this evening.
Why-why-WHY do people buy welders that are only rated for 14ga and require you to take a nap after duty-cycle shutdown...? ...but, since that's what you have... and, since this isn't seriously structural and failure won't be catastrophic... if you cut your boxing plates so that your arc is running the edge of the plate and the flange on the frame, it'll be fine. Welding an edge is way different than welding a face. The heat transfers to a much smaller surface and melts it much quicker. You could get by with cutting the plates smaller, so there's a gap when it's inset like the second pic, but that would take a little more heat. I'd go with the fillet in the first pic and push your weld, so excess filler flies away and allows the arc to penetrate. Better yet, use that POS 110 for a boat anchor and go get a real machine... JOE
See my post. -V grooving will give you the same ability to fillet at long as the grinding is done right. -Even with the groove preheating will help if the machine is this small. -I agree that a bigger machine is in order... just to make things less of a headache. I need a new welder. I'm gonna wait another month so I can afford a Lincoln PowerMig 255C.
I don't always read every post... sorry. I leave that up to the guy with the little dinky welder... JOE
I plan on doing all this stuff maybe even after market a arms and stuff. I figured if I was going to get this thing to handle nice than have a good foundation would be much better and it doesn't seem too difficult to do. Also the engine I plan on putting in there will be about 500hp having a nice frame would be good. hey quit baggin on my welder! it makes me feel insecure When I bought it I didn't think I would ever be welding frames or anything how dumb was I!
That, right there, is the crux of the matter. I wish everybody could read that statement... I'm not baggin' on your welder. I'm baggin' on every single 110v piece of **** welder ever bought or sold. That's the same reason I beg my friends not to buy a Sportster for their first bike. Two weeks after they learn to ride they wish they had a wide glide. No offense, but just out of curiosity... what, exactly, did you figure you'd be welding...? You can't even safely fix a kid's swing set with one. What about cutting the plates and tacking them on, and then taking the car to a shop to have it welded off...? JOE
Here's some advice my instructor gave me when I was in school for welding... "Always hold out and buy the biggest god damned welder you can afford. Sure you only want to weld up bike and car frames, but someday some jerk is gonna break something and offer you $$ to fix it, and you bet that it will be 1/2" plate. Might as well have the artillery there just in case."
If you have a 220v sitting around you want to give me let me know I know I have a 110 so does everyone else who has read this thread so how about something constructive to contribute to the topic at hand...
I already did. Did you see that I took the time to make a drawing and post it on photobucket and then reply to your cry for help...? That's not constructive enough...? As a professional welder of 33 years, what I told you to do isn't just speculation... it's what you should do. There's no magic potion or cure that's going to change any of it. I was as nice and respectful about it as I could be. When, in fact, I could just as easily have said, "You stupid muther****er...! Go buy a ****ing welder for working on ****ing cars and quit wasting our ****ing time...!!!" ...but, I didn't say that did I...? The last thing I said was directed not at you, but at everyone who may have even the slightest notion that one of those overpriced wire dispensers is actually a welder. Good luck with your... um... CUTL***... (good topic) JOE
von, if ya cant afford a 220 volt mig ,(not everyone can) you should be able to find a decent lincoln or miller stick welder in your local paper or a garage sale. you can get a good machine for a good price if you look around. i would NEVER buy an offshore welder no matter what. 110 migs are best for light duty work and very good for body work. guys used stick welders for eons with no problems. all the gas mains and pipe lines are welded with stick machines, most likely will be forever. make the smartest choice you can, everyones life is riding on your decision. mike
I think your wasting your time but, if you must go for it. Only thing I can add is instead of making a square tube as in the drawing above, inset the box plate about 1/4". This way you'll have a decent T to weld and, you can run lines,etc. along the inset. That's what I'll do next time I box one. But I really think you wasting your time and why are we talking about a Cutl*** anyway? What's that go to do with traditional hot rods?
Ever thought of adding inboard rails or an "X" brace to the ch***is to stiffen it up? Would be a lot less welding
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