Maybe O/T: Is Detroit dead?

I got a call about an hour ago that I'm laid off, pretty much permanently. I can't say I didn't see it coming (we've been rotating days off for a few weeks now, but when "frost laws" come off we're supposed to be better off), but I guess I really didn't think it would happen to me.

It's the second job in 3 years that this has happened. The first was an aerospace job (turbine engine overhaul) that was shortened by the events of 9/11 (no people buying jets, no engines to overhaul.) This job was in heavy equipment repair (my "fall back job" that I have the degree in), at a place that has prided itself on no layoffs in the 60 years + they've been open.

Which leads me to believe it's this area. 2 different career fields, same result, "laid off due to lack of work".

Does anyone out there have faith in "our fair city" /the big 2 or should I follow my gut and bail? I really like Dallas...

Shit, this sucks.

Jay

 

i too am affected by the michigan "frost laws" work sucks in michigan some of my fellow drivers have moved on and working steady some went to wyoming some went over the road they are working.
i've said it before and iwill say it again "I didn't vote for her!"
good luck in the hunt.

 

Yeah, I've been watching the Union Pacific website for awhile, lots of jobs in Montana and Wyoming... hard to eat the pay cut though. But, I guess it's a sign of the times.

Jay

 

What are Michigan "frost laws"?

I grew up just south in Toledo, and have friends and family there and in Michigan.
Great state to fish in, but I don't see its economy getting any better. Detroit seems to have been a drain/black hole on the state for years, and it isn't going to get any better, due in no small part to the local government and "I'm entitled/you owe me" mentality of the population and union work force.

Just the opinion of someone who went South for greener grazing.

Brad

 

I don't know about Detroit but based on earnings figures of the big 3 and high labor rates due to unions, I'd say Detroit is in trouble. Houston has signs everywhere for help wanted, from machinists, mechanics, bodymen, paint guys, every fast food place, etc (yes, in spite of way to many illegals). I expect Dallas is much the same as Houston since you like it so much, just a higher cost of living up there.

HOWEVER, if you expect to come down here and make $40 an hour, stay up north. Very very few jobs down here pay that much. (edit- let me add though that my 2300 sq ft house in a great subdivision was less than $150k. My dad, in Michigan, paid $130 for a 2000 sq ft 30 year old place.)

 

Detroit is really a tragedy. I read recently that the city lost another 5% of its population from 2000-5, dropping below 900,000 for the first time since 1920 (it peaked at nearly 2 million in 1950). It used to be one of America's most prosperous cities, now over a third of its remaining people live in poverty. We drove into Autorama over 25 miles of urban streets, and it looked more like Dresden than a 21st century American city.

The real tragedy is that Detroit's troubles are entirely man-made -- a combination of joint labor-management stupidity, and a parasitic and corrupt political class that milked the manufacturing cash cow dry. If Detroit is dead, the coroner rules it a suicide.

 

The whole country is going to hell, man...

Take your pick as to the reasons...

The stock market being driven by the credit based economy... which is money nobody even earned yet.
If nobody has a job they can't pay their debts...
Oh oh... now what? Banks will soon be foreclosing on tens of thousands of homes and dumping them on an already flooded market, driving housing prices down and only the rich will be buying up everything, because most people will be without means to purchase...
It will be "The Grapes of Wrath" all over again...

Fuel cell automobiles being talked about as being "right around the corner" and a war for the $$$ gouging oil barons running the government to fill their pockets while their juice is still a commodity.

Illegals jumping the borders and working for peanuts and labor unions breaking the balls of businesses, large and small, to raise wages, when prices keep going up.

Insurance companies extorting $$$ for accidents that might never happen and dropping long standing "high risk" pony ride operators and boat repairmen, and claiming the losses from 9/11 are the reason... (as if)

It's greed... top to bottom... GREED....

This ain't politics... it's real life...
We're fucked unless someone comes up with a plan to stop this runaway train before it smashes into the station...

The first two suggestions I'd give are a cap on insurance rates and credit card interest and penalties... Those two things, alone, will be the ruin of our entire economy.... but, of course, those are the "low risk, high pay" slot on everyone's 401K... right...? Wrong...! My mom will be working until she's dead because she can't afford to retire. Even though that's where she put her investments. While we're all paying high interest and outlandish insurance premiums, those companies claim to be losing money...

Start assassinating every corporate executive and government official that makes more than $75,000 a year and watch how fast this country turns itself around...



JOE

 

I dont know if Detroit is dead but it definatly isnt going ahead.

GM in Lansing is the same way. Everyone I know is laid off from GM and all the news talks about losses in the billions and how cars cant sell. GM and Ford have the best engineers and desingers money can buy and they still cant get it together.

My dad is a union GM millwright and is laid off right now. Hes never been laid off this much before. GM contracts out jobs and then the GM millwrights go back to work for a week to fix the shitty work the contractors did. Then they expect nothing but top notch work, then another 3 week lay off. Not very smart.

Junkyard dog your right. All it comes down to is big buisness greed and screwing the blue collar worker.

If GM or Ford go down hill, like they are, Lansing and Detroit, and tons of other heavliy reliant towns around the country are SOL.

 

frost laws refer to weight restrictions on the hiways and side roads .as you may know( growing up in toledo)we run some BIG LOADS here in michigan .164,OOO lbs gvw on eleven axles on two trailers. so when the weather breaks and it starts to warm up and the frost trys to melt away ,load restrictons are but in place to help hold the detiration of the roads here .the frost stays under the road beds longer than open ground so construction work and related work slows down or stops till the "Frost Laws "go off usually by the 15th of april

 

That Sucks Jay,
I've got a buddy that is being laid off right now too. He's got multiple offers though, he's a tech, even in Milford! I think GM will turn it around, I hope Ford can as well. I fear for the tier 1s and I sure hope the one I work for stays smart. This is one reason I'm glad I work on military products!

 

Here's a story that Detroit cars cost more than foreclosed houses
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070319/ts_nm/usa_subprime_detroit_dc

 

I saw that yahoo story and have been thinking of buying land over there. It's got to back up sooner or later right??? All the while you can't buy a shack out here for less than $500,000

 

The way I look at that is, is that it's taking advantage of other's misfortune. If nobody buys these places then the banks might hesitate to foreclose. We the people, buddy...... we the people.



JOE

 

yeah i lived in houston for a while and was considering buying a nice spread in the woodlands but decided to move back home to little rhodey (rhode island) and bought a house a third of the size in a shitty neighborhood for 260,a hell of a lot more than a nice joint there.

 

Dead. I'm from there and still read the Freep every day. Never ending downhill road. Never going to return to what it was in the 50's and 60's. Fire Millen.

 

You should do some research before bashing what I said. Those homes have ALREADY been foreclosed on. I'm sorry, but I think pumping cash into a market is trying to help. Maybe others think differently.
Aaron

 

Detroit and Michigan are going down...fast. It's all tied to the auto industry and we all know that story. Corporate greed...stockholder greed....assembly line worker greed...union greed. Toyota will rule the automotive world shortly, and they didn't take it from us....we gave it away. There should be some great deals on lakefront property here soon......good luck to all my fellow GMB's.....

 

Interesting. Across the border in Windsor things are completely opposite at the Big 3. My father is a toolmaker and has worked for the big 3, and in other shops that you call the contractors. He says the skilled trades at the Big 3 are some of the laziest that he has ever seen. If it wasn't for the "contractors", things would never get fixed. The contractors here are the ones who fix things right.

Last summer he worked for Ford during their summer "shutdown" through a personnel agency. He said he really wasn't working too hard but that the foreman came up to him and told him to slow down, he was working too hard.

The Big 3 are dying over here too, but not because of "Big Business Greed", rather it is UNION GREED. Assembly line workers here make more $ than frontline healthcare workers like nurses and paramedics who help save lives.

 

It is pretty depressing, in the last few months, I have been to several automotive suppliers, to pick up auction goods, due to their demise. My company, which is very small, is staying alive, and looking good for the future, but the fact that we are 100% big 3 based, is scary. Those companies have the ability to pull the rug out from under you FAST!

Good Luck Jay, and anyone else dealing with the loss of jobs.

 

I wasn't bashing you, man. I'm just saying that if they end up taking losses on foreclosures then they won't be so quick to foreclose on the next guy... and the next...
...and that money isn't going to help Detroit. It's going to help the shareholders of some conglomerate that buys and holds mortgages. They could be foreign or domestic, but not necessarily in the area that the homes are located.
I took my loan out for my house in Cable Wisconsin, but the mortgage was "sold" to J.P. Morgan-Chase... There is no funnel for that money coming back into my community.
If you want to help someone in Detroit, buy a house from an owner that needs to sell BEFORE he's foreclosed on... and let the bank's holdings sit and rot empty.

JOE

 

Sorry to hear this Jay. This city is suffering big time and what is lost isn't coming back.

I can only wish you the best in luck finding someting else.

 

Manufacturing in the USA is dead!

The quicker everyone realizes that the better.

Life is all about changes...and the country is in for a dynamic shift from manufacturing to service oriented jobs.

Get on board or stay behind.

 

Well, I am a skilled tradesman at a Ford plant in Sterling Heights MI. And as far as we are lasy that is SHIT!. We all come to work everyday and bust our ass to keep this place running. As far as contracters go they are also SHIT. People think we are overpaid, well i do make good money, but i also have too work knee deep in Hyd. oil all day. And in the summer it is 110 in this shit hole. Just my two cents but people who dont work here have no idea what its like and most couldnt handle it. ERIC

 

I "had" a union job. Operating Engineers. We'll see if they pull though for me in the end.

Hatch summed it up best, and I know what gauder is talking about, that's all I'm going to say on that.

I'm looking also into the Huntsville, AL, area, for obvious reasons.

As for the making $40 an hour, it's not the case... I just wanna be able to support the family I've created.

Thanks for the support guys (and girls) and if any of y'all hear of something, I'm open.

Jay

 

I'm UNION! It was the companies sending work overseas to exploit slave labor. For every one laid off there is one less buyer of their cars which means one more has to be laid off. Corporate Greed!! As for Detroit --- "Do the sermon, Bless them , and wrap it up."

 

Union or management, who cares, it has been done and is done. The mistakes of those that aren't here won't help those that are. The fact that we've become a nation of debtors is what scares me the most. I've seen Jay's DD, it sure as hell isn't a brand new truck! Unfortunately, there are probably 10 guys he works with getting the same axe that have brand new trucks and new boats and new houses and everything else.

One thing my wife and I have worked to do is NOT have debt. We buy what we can afford and if we can't, we wait. None of this 'put it on the card' shit. And I don't live on my overtime. Overtime can and does go away. I'm tired of seeing these guys going belly up on shit they created. If you can't afford it on your regular pay, DON'T BUY IT! How hard is that? Do we NEED 198" Plasma screen TVs? I had a 19" when I was a kid and it was fine! It is nice to have the nice stuff, don't get me wrong, but if it puts you in a hole, it owns you. If your job goes away what the hell are you going to do?

I had a buddy that I worked with in SC that worked for True Temper. When they packed up and pulled out of town, he drove 3 cars to the bank and handed them the keys. He lived on his OT for years and suddenly his supervisor job was gone and he was working for me, then 24 years old, at $14 per hour. Not a good feeling to have 3 grandkids and have to put up with someone who needed his nose wiped.

 

Thanks D.

Earlshieb, you got any openings? I've got lots of body experience (of the automotive kind) and wouldn't mind living in middle Tennessee...



Jay

 

What about a cap on gas prices? Seems it's territorial what they charge. More for big prosperous cities, and less for the poorer regions. And it all comes from the same fucking barrels of oil. Dumb. Someone needs their lights punched out for what the oil companies are getting away with. They claim to have their stockholders interest in mind (tiny percent of us) while humping the shit out of the rest of us (almost everyone over 16)

 

you can blame unions all you want, but the fact of the matter is the coorporate end of things is what is ruining all manufacturing everywhere. time was when the ceo of any company was only going to make 20 times that of the average employee now its somewhere around 150 times then you count in obligations for retirement and options. you multiply that by the number of additional uneeded vp's, secretarys of vp's, and higher end lackys to the board and you very rapidly get to a point where you are top-heavy. and at the end they say the company is more solvent than ever.bs.

then you add to the fact that these capitalists buy out the government, you know the thing that was created to protect its people, in order to maximize yields for shareholders by doing away with the very laws created to protect our economy.

how much does a person need to be compensated for eating steak dinners and playing golf for a living? sure a union man may have it easier than a non-union man, but who really has it easiest? and not once have i ever heard a union man who was former scab ever complain about his new job. you want to live and work better youll go union.youll be able to stand up for yourself and yours instead of being just a step above peonage. when unions were strongest no one complained about who was making what kind of money because we were all doing well. and that is a fact.

 

Good luck with that, while the oil king is in office... but I do agree.

I'm trying to keep my statements "non-political" (sorry RYAN)...but if you're interested, check out this song my buddy, Ken, recorded.
http://community.freespeech.org/audio/user/4679

click: "download audio file" to listen... and "read more" to read the lyrics...

(The contents of this thread do not reflect the views of this station or any of its owners, subsidiaries or advertisers )

EDIT: I wish to ad that one of the most profound days of my life was a "political" discussion I had with NADS right here on the H.A.M.B. a few years ago. It truly did change my views...
Thank you, NADS... and you too, RYAN, for letting that one play out.



JOE