Maybe O/T: Is Detroit dead?

It's the same way in PA. I was laid off permanantly Feb 22 due to lack of orders. It sucks everywhere you look. Like I said in another post no matter how much you bust your ass to do a good job, your still expendable and they don't give a rats ass about you 'cause they are still employed and are making good money off of slave labor in a foriegn country.

I'm just curious as to what people think "good money" is pay wise?

 

I think it sucks that while workers are laid off and compainies are losing billions the ceos collect millions. Most of the time the workers are not the cause of the layoffs but they always pay not the ceos.

 

YES !!!!! I've been un-enjoyed since dec 28. I have 11 years experience in CNC machining and with all the apps and resume's I've sent out I haven't had even 1 call for an interview. Guess I'll have to go the temp service route for whatever kinda job that pays good. Too bad I didn't loose my job in may when a guy could make some bucks in the driveway. Any one looking for a personal slave/GMB ?

 

I'll tell ya what "good money" is.....$76.00 an hour for working on a "big three" assembly line....that figure covers everything....including retirement and medical benefits...the whole benefit package for unskilled labor. It's no wonder they outsource.

 

We're all DOOMED!

 

and how many of you guys have tools from china in your box cause it was a good deal???? maybe you put youself out of work

 

NOT me! I've got enough trouble busting my knuckles with Snap-On and Craftsman as it is

 

Hell... I forgot foreign steel and the loss of our own domestic steel (ore and scrap... and crushed cars) in my earlier list.

The loss of the auto industries is having, and will continue have, a huge impact on the steel industry. There was some resurgence in the iron ore plants up in Northern Minnesota, but I think it's just a band-aid.

JOE

 

Damn, no wonder I'm not getting anywhere. Good money for me in my area is between 14-16 bucks an hour for a general laborer, no fully paid benifits, they pay some you pay the rest.

 

Let"face it, the world aint fair and you gotta figure out how to put your own program together. Fuck upper management and fuck the unions. I'll make my own way without counting on someone else as best as I can. I used to deliver heat treated metal parts to different plants when I worked a "real job". I could tell which were union plants by their shitty "its not my job" dragass attitudes. Like someone else said, keep your debts down and dont count on someone else to make things work for you.

 

Go ahead and joke..... you can cry later.

There's people posting in this thread who are in serious trouble.



JOE

 

Look, guys...It's not a simple answer, and no one is to blame - there's plenty to spread around. We live inna global economy, and the rules which made Detroit a place where a high school grad could turn six figures with overtime no longer apply.

whether you live in Garden City or the Garden State - if you're involved in manufacturing, you're competing with a guy from Indonesia who lives in a shipping container with 11 other guys, eats fish gut soup for dinner, and sends his paycheck 600 miles home to his family. that's what we're up against; Ive seen it personally.

The only jobs that can't be outsourced are service jobs - while secure, they sure as hell don't pay much.

Detroit won't die - but it won't be the same after this, man. Don't be so quick to lay blame on either management, union or greed - a bargaining table and negotiations got us to this point...it worked as long as the labor pool was in the good 'ol US of A. The desire for a better standard of living created wealth, but now the rest of the world wants what we have - and they're gonna take it.

Six - sorry to hear about your plight. It's gonna be tough to find a job here - most folks who find work will find it at lower $$.

 

What tools are made in america any more? Hell I'd buy them if I could afford them but then I wouldn't have any money for the car. I get $40 a week for allowance, 20 for gas and 20 for the car or my other hobbies. Thats just the way it is and has beeen for a while.

 

Ah, so that's the real reason. You had to go and screw things up by creating a family. Way to go. They have ways of preventing that you know. You could just sell everything, & move in here while you looked for something better if you were still single you know...it would be like old times...

P.S. I think DiDi would like you back...

 

Jay and anyone else facing layoffs in detroit,
There are lots of jobs out here in Utah. The front page of this mornings Salt Lake Tribune reads "Jobless rate lowest since '53". Here's a link to the story:
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5484841

Detroit Diesel has a big facility out in Tooele, Utah. I don't know if they're hiring, but it sounds right up your alley. Also Autoliv (the airbag mfg) is out here. Edge products (deisel programmers) is here.

Getting layed off sucks. I know, I've been through it back when I worked in Aerospace. So I'm just trying to help out by giving you some options.

Salt Lake is a culture shock but its actually a nice place once you get used to the idiosyncracies. You can't beat being 100 miles from the fastest place on earth!

See you on the salt,
Tom

 

I was just looking at this earlier today. Its sad to see this decay in a city that was once the pinnacle of the American manufacturing industry.

http://www.damnfunnypictures.com/html/Detroit-Is-Dying.html

 

There's no simple answer,but when a foreign automaker(toyota) outsells one of the "big three"it's gone too far.Maybe those big three shouldn't have concentrated so much on marketing SUV's.Now all those consumers who can't afford fuel are buying small import cars.When you combine that with North American top heavy corporations,with huge pay and benefit packages,they have forgotten that they must compete with off shore producers.BUY A FOREIGN CAR,GET A FOREIGN JOB!

 

A couple have mentioned "service based" jobs being secure in our new economy, but what security is there in that if the rest of the economy slows? Hotels, restaurants, airlines, automobile service...etc... all depend on people needing, or being able to pay for, those services. I don't get the logic there... We can't all just service each other. If we could, what a wonderful world it would be.
There are so many factors that even service related jobs rely on, but the biggest is not need.... it's the customer's ability to afford the service.
When I can afford it, I have the neighbor kid mow my grass... and when I can afford it, I have a doctor stitch a gaping flesh wound. Lately I've been doing both myself.... so, the neighbor kid can't buy that new Playstation-3 and my doctor can't afford that new titanium driver.
What service based job in between those two is secure...?

JOE

 

Sad fact is, middle-class America's disappearing! It's going to be rich and poor with nothing in the middle, and i think it's not too far off. I believe it's going to be the too little, too late syndrome

 

So what would be better for the "economy?"

Buying a brand new Ford Crate Engine, or

Buying a 60 year old Ford Flathead?

The new engine supports Ford, but the old engine supports the guy who sold it, plus the local machinist that does the machine work to the block, plus rebuild parts, etc.

Not trying to upset anyone, just think its funny that on a traditional board people are talking about supporting the big three.

 

Re; Oil/Gas prices - you will find that the MAJORITY of the price of a gallon of gas consists of TAXES! The government makes more off every gallon than the oil company does...It blew me away when the politicians were trying to score points by slamming the oil companies. Hells Bells, if they really cared they would REDUCE the taxes they collect on each gallon from us! But if they did that, they would have nothing to complain about, no tax money to spend and we would'nt need them to champion on our behalf. Just my 2 cents

 

For those of you trying to buy American made products: http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/ I just found this site, very cool.

My girlfriend lost her job and was offered two years of free tuition to train for a new career of her chioce. Maybe there are programs like this that recently unemployed HAMBers could look into. Check with your local employment office.

 

I have a good friend that runs a very large manufacturing facility. He has been in the business for about 30 years. He says the exact same thing. He has been moving his manufacturing business to China and Mexico. according to hiim, America is shifting from a manufacturing power to a technolgy development power. We can all embrace it or fail as a country. Same great country just a new game. This sort of thing happens periodically in all cultures. In the 1950's the Taiwan goverment launched a "your living room is your manufacturing facility" campaign. If you ever visit Taiwan you will notice a ton of very small fab shops. These shops provide 1-2 simple parts to larger manufacturing facilities. Now 50 years later, alot of low cost manufacturing is going to China.

 

I'd be curious to find out which theatre that is, and how old those pix are. I know some of them are of the VA hospital in Allen Park that my grandmother retired from. It's torn down now, as are a few of those other buildings pictured.

And, for anyone who hasn't been here, that is a somewhat accurate portrayal of the outskirts of the "inner city". Alot of it got cleaned up when the Super Bowl was here, but alot didn't too.

It's not all bad though, when we were coming down Michigan Ave. to get to Autorama, alot of the buildings that used to be vacant when I worked down there a few years ago were being used again, and there were alot of people out. And, in the shadow of the train station (across Bagley) there were NEW condos... at least some people still care, I guess.

Yeah, I couldn't sleep...

Jay

 

This pretty well sums it up. Do what you gotta do to take care of yourself and your family. Don't depend on a union or a management "team" in some company to "care" for you.

 

"Thank you for calling Dell (DELhi India that is), what seems to be the problem with your computer?"

Some service jobs CAN be outsourced and they are!!

If you can get training in something else, do it. Always helps to have a fall back, fall back plan.

 

The "service job" industry is not an industry.....gimme a break. How strong will this country be if everyone works at Taco Bell???? I've lived in third world nations, and it's not a pretty sight......Rich and Poor.....your only two choices. And guess which category the "service industry" fits in??????


I agree with Fuelpump (quote)"This pretty well sums it up. Do what you gotta do to take care of yourself and your family. Don't depend on a union or a management "team" in some company to "care" for you.


And, if you guys think the gov't is gonna help, get ready for a rude awakening. Learn new skills....or starve.

 

Just reflecting on the "positive" attitude here.

 

Detroit could help itself... but it needs to start at the bottom... and the top.
The "union" worker needs to understand that without the company there is no union. The whole "I'M UNOIN...!" mentality is BULLSHIT. The company must come first. The company and the worker are the union...
Workers need to back off of their high standards of living, at least to within reason, and let the company prosper. I've worked in MANY union shops, and every single one went tits-up because every guy on the floor wanted a piece of even a moderate company profit. Get real motherfuckers... If the company can't sustain itself, and put the money that you think is yours back into development and growth the Japs and Chinese are going to take over...
Oops... too late....

It's hard though, for the worker to justify a wage or benefit cut when the CEO is pulling down seven figures a year, so there needs to be trimmings from both ends...


JOE

 

not to start anything but only 17% (last i'd heard) of the cost of building a vehicle (at GM) is parts AND labor. GM is the most top heavy automaker in the world.


and Sixgunner. it's pretty much the whole state. alot of politics involved and we don't want to go into that here. i hear lots of people at work and outside tossing the blame every which way but the concencus seems to be that it has alot to do with our state governement. i personaly don't know. i'm not a big fan of politics and i don't follow it that closely. only know what i hear second hand. the situation is not good though. thre is even uncertainty in the BRAND NEW GM plant that i'm working in right now. nobody feels secure.