Diesel applications for hot rods

I have no personal experience with diesel powered cars or trucks so enlighten me...

Given the desire to build more fuel efficient cars, has anybody thought about a diesel engine swap in a Hot Rod?

What unique characteristics does diesel power possess that would be particularly well suited to a hot rod/Custom?

What characteristics make it uniquely poorly suited to Hot Rods/Kustoms?

I've always kind of thought about diesel as the anti-performance medium, but lately I've been seeing more and more press on souping up diesel engines and it got me thinking.

The application that I'm thinking of right now is a big custom with the spirit of the old rum (drug?) running cigarette boats...

Something with lots of diesel power and lots of gears designed for high speed (highway), long distance running...

Maybe something that could run dual-fuel with bio-diesel...

Just an idea that's been bugging me for a while now...

 

Diesels are heavy (big and bulky for the most part), produce alot of torque at low rpm, don't rev very high, smell funny, are expensive to work on (injectors, injection pumps), get decent mileage, and not the best for a hotrod......good for towing....the new trucks are impressive and can be made to run quick ( a freind has a twin turbo Cummins Dodge 4x4 3/4T pushing 1000hp)....
Diesel swaps are getting popular for 4x4's/rock crawling for their low rpm torque....
Could possibly be made to work for a custom....but in the long run, more trouble than it's worth IMHO......just too expensive, even for used engines......

 

Many years back I recall seeing a 32 Ford Victoria {I think}with of all thing a fairly new Olds car diesel in it featured in Hot Rod or maybe Rod & Custom. It was from Rock Springs Wyoming and Id bet has been repowered by now

 

I've been thinking about this swap a lot lately and i think the best application for a diesel motor swap is something like an F100 or some of the other big trucks from that time. The benefit with this would be that it would make your parts truck a little more powerful with sacrificing mileage and the modern diesels motors are mostly meant for haulin shit. It'd also be good because the only external hint that your running a diesel would be the sound of the exhaust, so you can still have the truck look traditional.

 

They stink and sound like they are full of rocks.

 

We were just talking about this over the weekend because one of the guys who wants to drive across country wants to be able to do it on waste oil since usually it's free-you just need to pump it and filter it. I'd love to come across a straight 6 mill with a turbo on it to put into a hotrod. just small enough not to weigh a ton but cool enough to blow billowing black smoke everywhere, hahaha.

 

Funny you should bring this subject up as I have been looking at building a car for my family based on a Diesel engine. Thoughts are to use a 55-57 7 seat wagon and then graft in all the running gear from a BMW535D. 280HP and 420Lbft from the factory is enough to get my thinking and that is witout a very simple remap that will take the HP to 350 and the Lbft to over 500! Add to this the fact that you could expect to get 35MPG + and it all starts to look good.

Only downside is finding a wrecked 535 for sensible cash and then finding someone that can re wire the space shuttle to get it all to work.

Would be a great car, quick enought to be fun and still cheap to run.

Chances of actually seeing it happen though are probably nill more is the pity.

P.

 

My buddies truck runs HARDER than that......but remember, the trucks have a MUCH heavier duty suspension to support the WEIGHT.....the Cummins engine is a inline 6 and is longer than a V-8, alot HEAVIER too......

Did I mention it was heavy????

 

For a "hot" diesel check out the Ford built 3.7 and 4.4 available currently in the Land Rover.

 

Sprinter. 2.7 litre 5 inline, electronically injected, VERY quiet, under 10 sec 0-60 in a van.
Else the earlier 617 5 cylinder Turbo-Diesel Benz. From the way it shoves my 300CD Coupé down the road, should go WAY faster in a lighter car.
BTW, Mercedes are the originator of high-speed diesels, mine will wrap up to 5,000 rpm.
Lastly, look at what won LeMans last year. Yup, a diesel.
Cosmo

P.S. Diesel fuel contains 11% more BTU per gallon than gasoline.

 

I've thought about diesel power also, but with a little different twist. I've have a 48(?) IH school bus that I'd like to build in the future(far future!) as a hot rod motor home. I've wondered if there was any way to convert the original I6 to diesel. Don't know much about diesels tho. I need to do some research. Any ideas?

 

I've checked out a guy's car locally here,that makes me think this could be possible.This guy hated his fuel mileage in a large Chrysler newport,swapped in a small nissan truck 6 cyl diesel.Still has as much power as the 440 but much better on fuel and not any heavier.I'm having a vision of a track T with a full hood,small import diesel (from the wrecking yard)and a well built frame.Just a thought.

 

Guy in Newport, Arkansas has a glass, full fendered 32 Vicky with an Isizu (I think) four cylinder diesel. Drives it all over the place. Sez he gets 50 MPG on the open road.

 

How QUICK is it????
HotRods SHOULD be fast..........

 

Don't think he has much to brag about when it comes to 0-60. But he gets where he is going. You could call it a warm (as in glow plug) rod I guess.

 

I'm a little confused...

You said your buddy had a diesel truck that is faster than that 10sec Dodge in the video, but you are questioning how fast the hot rod with the Izusu diesel is...

There are VERY FEW 10sec street driven Hot Rods period... If the diesel in that Dodge truck can pull 10s, think what it could do in a properly set up roadster...

I would think, by your own admission, diesels have proven their ability to MOVE a car quickly.

 

I bet its about as fast as a flathead. then in top cruising speed and torque, it kills it.

 

I've been running the VW 1.9 TDI for about 6 years now for a daily driver. 48 mpg in winter and 52-58 mpg in summer. The chipped versions will get up and go in a light car...might work in a track style 27T or hiboy. The turbo has no noticeable lag, and the car feels like it has the torque of a larger motor. The VW TDI has several sites: this one is useful, http://www.tdiclub.com/
and they are now building a second generation motor for the states, with more power. They keep the engine quiet by surrounding the compartment with lightweight sound damping panels, including a belly pan.

 

I am still in the part collecting faze. But i'am putting a Cummins 4BT (6bt used in Dodges with 2 cylinders cut off) in my 1937 International D-2 1/2 ton pickup. Just need to find a Dodge 2x4 NV4500 and adapter plate and i can start on it.

 

Also have been gathering stuff for a future shop truck, 90 Dodge 3/4 ton diesel pickup that I will strip the body off, adjust the wheelbase to match that of my 61 IH Travellette crew cab pickup, have the diesel power to tow yet still be driving an old truck.

 

The main problem with a diesel is that you're going to have to have a modern electronically controlled one to get away from the stink and behavior problems. Which means expensive late model conversion.

This is OK if you can fit a domestic truck diesel, which are huge and heavy, but can make big stupid power. I see lifted extended cab 4x4s running black sooty 12s at my local strip's street night. That's bad-ass for sure.

But if you can't fit a domestic diesel, then you're gonna have to adapt the electronic control system off your mercedes or whatever foreign brand engine is used. Something like the mercedes mentioned are probably a better choice for a car, but the total lack of custom aftermarket support in this country might make the electrical side an expensive nightmare.

3500 rpm engines can be overcome to some extent with gearing. Plan on running something ridiculous like 2.13s to use the torque and keep top speed reasonable

Personally, for mileage, if you're willing to go that untraditional.......just swap a turbo 3.8 buick in. Power and mileage and domestic aftermarket support.

good luck

 

i'm still trying to figure out this 'stinky, bad behavior problem' BS.
I dont know if you guys paid attention to the 24hrs at LeMans this year, specifically the AUDI teams but they ran a diesel. yes, 24 hrs at Lemans.

dont let what you see at the tracks, and from all us young college guys running HOPPED UP DIESELS give all diesels a bad name. I dare you to find a gas engine that can bring your 105,000 lbs of groceries on 4mpg.

Honestly, I agree with everyone else to stray away from them. It's 8 GRAND for a rebuilt one for my diesel. I paid a grand for an aftermarket upgrade clutch. another grand for turbo system. ANOTHER grand for the intercooler set up and I did most of the parts myself. That's not even CLOSE to having any trick work done inside. They do often weigh more than most engines so you would need to account for that in your front suspension, weight distribution, etc, etc.

I would LOVE to see a 36 3/4 ton Chevy truck with a 600 HP Banks DirtyMax!! 6 speed allison and even some 4.10's are around 1800 cruising on the highway! How would you like to see that pulling an air stream go BLOWING by you on the interstate! WOW.




Mike
Former Diesel Mech.
One of those guys blowing black smoke because it is NOT stock. Disturbing the piece with the 'Gray Train' since 2001.

 

You could always find an old diesel rabbit if you were just looking for milage. In a modified, I bet you could pull close to 60 mpgs and have decent power and simple to work on. Personally I am thinking about building a steam powered modified, but that probably will not happen for at least 6-8 yrs from now.

 

I'm sure anyone could look to Gale Banks' shop for stand alone computers and programs. I've considered adapting a diesel to a future project, as I love that monster stupid power once the turbo kicks in! Gale Banks is the diesel god. Doesn't he still hold the world record at Bonneville for a diesel powered truck? The 'Sidewinder' set the record, and even towed its own support trailer and equipment before doing the runs! And I'm pretty sure they ran it on the HotRod power tour. Says alot about the diesels to me.

 

i`m thinking on going diesel to, i have had a chance to talk to a few guys into biodiesel, they are all running old mercedes as they are easy to work on and cheep to buy, if you have to buy biodiesel its no big savings but if you make it yourself its about 40 cent a gallon, if you put another heated fuel tank in your car you can run filtered french fry juice for free, you have to start it on regular diesel then when the second tank get up to temp you switch over, could make a fun cool old ride with duel stacks, turbo charged and propane injected.

 

At one time, I was going to build my model A all stock, except for the VW Rabbit diesel 4 cyl I had laying around. I figured it would even sound stock if muffled just right.
Sold the engine, but would like to see one built sometime. I have a weak left knee, and finding an automatic tranny for that seemed impossible.

 

There's another way to do this besides adding a heater or heated tank. Years ago, my old man had a setup on some of his vehicles that was supposed to increase mileage, but I don't know if it ever did.

What he had was a length of tubing the size of the lower radiator hose that they had drilled two holes in and ran a stainless fuel line through it. The line had been bent inside the outer tubing so as to get the maximum amount of contact surface with the heated water from the engine, but it was brazed/welded closed. This just inserted into the lower radiator hose and worked that way. I don't know if you'd have to run a longer line or have it looped in order to keep the bio-fuel inside the hot water longer, but its a thought on this subject.

 

I'm all about the ingenuity factor and like the challenge of doing things differently than most. Just take a look at the propane powered rod I'm building now.
I have at least two tough concerns before I can jump on the diesel band wagon. The engines are big and heavy, unless you use a high tech electronic version. I have a problem with the high tech electronics in even a remotely old school car or truck. Second, they are smelly, smoke belching and tempermental, again, unless they are electronically controled. Back to that old school thing again... The best compromise I can come up with would be to put one in an old COE truck, but that misses the potential for some serious fuel economy and ingenuity in a car. If only I could dig up a pocket turbine with about 500 shaft HP and a muffler to keep it quiet... Now that's a diesel burning car i could get excited about...

Well, back to the shop. I've got a propane flame thrower to build for the truck...

 

By my own admission, it'll move a TRUCK quickly.....the difference between the new truck diesels and the smaller 4 cyl diesels is night and day....
Diesels have their place in the TOWING world.......that's why all these trucks have hop-up chips, bigger turbos, etc for 'em.......but the motors in the trucks are TOO BIG AND HEAVY for a hotrod.
And trying to get big hp out of a SMALLER diesel like the ISUZU is a waste of time when compared to a gas pot.......jeez......I work on this shit everyday, and I ain't ever considered putting a diesel in a hotrod.....it just DOESN"T MAKE SENSE!!!!!

 

I get what you're saying but I think it depends on what you consider a Hot Rod...

I'm into 40's rods and wouldn't think of putting a modern diesel in an AV8 or something totally trad...

I wouldn't put one in a hoodless car either, or any 20's or 30's bodied car...

But I also like late 40s and 50's bodied, full-fendered, hooded 'Hot Rods' and customs as well...

I think a modern diesel could be at home in a car like that... Couldn't be that much heavier than an FE motor or more modern than a TPI SBC...