I have EGTs on my car. Always have and think they are a good idea. Don't have as much time to look at gages as you think you would. Or I just don't remember what they said. But I do look at the EGTs
Holy crap! Thanks guys. Tons of good stuff here... I think I may have mentioned in the opening post, that I didn't think EGT guages would fit in with my current interior decor - but now I'm having second thoughts. They were lifesavers in the Nash (and other cars I've crewed on). However, more than one person here said I should relax and not "out-think" myself on this, which sounds like my original plan: don't change a thing - it runs what it runs, in the exact same set-up as I drive it around town. Then I thought, I better give it my best shot, since I probably won't be doing this again soon. And you guys have inspired me to stay on that course... I'm off to the track now, to find some scales to borrow and maybe sell a few shirts. Will check back here this afternoon. Thanks again guys, for all the insight! This is truely priceless.....
Okay, I'm back. Aaahhhh......nothing like a day at the strip to clear my head. Ran into an old boss of mine who has a full set of scales in the shop (it just never came up when I worked there) - he says to bring the car over there, when I get it back together and we'll scale it. Cool! After the drags, I picked up some materials to continue the thrash tomorrow. The car is coming along, and I gotta tell ya: for a feeling of great satisfaction, you can't beat hacking out giant chunks of bad workmanshiop from 22 years ago and replacing it with fresh work and materials - yeah! So then, where were we? Oh yeah - dialing in this car by committee. I'm glad to see that some other people are getting some use out of this thread - that's why it's here. Thanks to all who contributed! You guys gave me the perspective I needed, after pschycing myself out for the last few days. Anyone else have anything to share, before we close this out???
Go invest in a jet computer. Ask the current NHRA guys whats the best. Nothing else will get close. You feed air density into it and fill in some other parameters and it will make you look like a god. They used to cost around $500 for everything. Do some research on the racing websites where they run nat. asp. and see what they recommend. Because you will only get so many runs, you can't afford to tune up the engine after you get there. Do your homework before you get there so all you have to do is drive and mess with the chassis.
WFO Guy - Do you mean a weather station? I'm not hip to a "jet computer". I have some bracket racer pals with weather stations, but they use 'em every weekend, so I can't borrow one. Is a jet computer a software program?
It might be good to have a data recorder on board in case you are like me and can't remember anything from gages after a run. I just remember it was fun. Check out http://www.landracing.com/ and search recorders or something like that. Lots of salt info there.
Okay, I screwed up. I should've said this at the begining of this thread - the original idea here was to write a magazine story about running my lowbuck street car at B-ville. The theme of the story is: If I can do this, anyone can - trying to get the casual salt fan stoked to come out and give this a try. So the question now becomes: Will the casual salt fan feel that they must invest in jet computers and data recorders, in order not to be seen as posers? Of course, I want to give this my best shot, but hey, I'm selling blood and t-shirts for gas money - I can't afford this stuff. If I get salt fever this time out, I'll surely want this gear for next year, but this time? I dunno...
Nope. You don't need all that stuff to run wos or any other event at B-ville. That's one of the purposes of wos. Take your street car out there with the minimal safety requirements USFRA requires, put a tune on the engine you think is unreasonable and try to go fast. Don't make it harder than it has to be for what you're trying to do. You won't hurt a gas engine.
Thanks Rich and 28rpu. What do you other guys think? Especially those who are reading this while trying to decide if you'd like to try the salt? And as for that quote, we'll see...I'm building a pretty stout piece, but then again, I've never held an engine WFO for that long (2 miles, for the 150 Club runs). USFRA says I can run race fuel, which I find somewhat reassuring, but it still sounds edgy. Luckily, I enjoy the edge.........................................
Jangleguy, If you plan on running your street driven car on the salt for story purposes the the USFRA 130 Club at the World of Speed event is the best bet: www.saltflats.com Once you step into the 150 Club or record world it is a completly different deal. There is where you will need more safety gear and all the tools to perform to your desires. The casual salt guy will want to read about what it took to run and say you did it. Follow the advice of Rich and 28rpu, they are both veterens of the salt and know what it takes. Someone asked so here is brief bio: My father, the late Harry L Warner built the Wayne 12 port heads for Chevy and GMC in-line sixes. I raced at Bonneville for the first time in 1963, have missed only one meet since. I currently man the record impound at all salt and dry lake events. Thats where you will find me most of the time. I belong to the El Mirage and Bonneville 200 MPH clubs, vice president of the Bonneville club for this term. I was the humbled recipient of the Bob Higee service award at Speedweek last year. That is very brief, lots more racing history for another time. DW
<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">for the scales, find some roundy round guys ,they live by them.I feel sure they will scale for you or let you borow them. good luck. jim. </TD></TR><TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on"> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I've been to some El Mirage meets, and I've thought about land speed racing. You need a full cage to run at El Mirage. When I first read this thread I was thinking you had a roll cage in your car. I've never been to Bonneville, and I didn't know of the 130 and 150 MPH Clubs. This sounds like an easier step to try land speed racing. Thanks, Kurt
Holy Moly, Dan! As an inliner fan, I knew the Warner name, but never put two and two together...Thanks again for taking the time to talk a rookie through the basics - the most important work any of us can do, in my opinion. I'll try real hard not to pester you with questions - sounds like you already have plenty to do...And I'll swing by impound and say HI at WoS... It's on the other threads, but my car runs 10.30s at the strip, so already has most required safety equipment for 150 Club - am adding the rest now...
Found this thread, read it from start to finish, now i want to go saltflat racing, but more than that I want to know if you ever made it out and ran your car? how did you do?
Antihuman--Scotty isn`t going to the Salt until September--so buy a Special Gosson Bros Supporters T-Shirt now so he can afford to buy Gas on the way....Reminds me--Are you able to put a bigger Gas tank in that thing Scotty? My fading memory tells me it weighs 6.5lbs a gallon---Ballast in liquid form...And you can thank me for the Shameless T Shirt plug later....
Oh man, such sweet spam! I owe you, House, big time! I'll be your butler for life - whatever it takes... Okay, ballast: Yes, Dr. Lockjaw (Jamie) and I are currently building an aluminum tank that should hold about six to eight gallons. It'll hide under the trunk floor, so all you'll see is the little 2 1/2 gallon Eelco tank that's been my only source of fuel storage for the last 22 years. So let's see - minimum of six new gallons, plus two and a half old ones - equals eight and a half gallons, at 6.5 pounds apiece...Uh huh...(carry the one)...okay, that's 55.25 pounds, just behind the rear end and between the rails. Better than nothing...But the rails are kicked up in back, so that weight isn't as low as I'd like. I'm still adding the jumbo steel straps I talked about earlier - right at the bottom edge of the rails (in the middle of the car). Should be better for scaling the car, too. I also mentioned earlier that I've been lurking on the Landspeed 'site and I saw a thread on there about weight - these were streamliner guys, but they said they added several hundred pounds to their cars and saw major gains in MPH, thanks to better traction. I know it's usually best to add weight at the rear (on street and strip), but what about getting wobbly, then wagging that heavy tail around? Even adding the extra 55 pounds of fuel back there makes me wonder...(did I mention that I tend to overthink things?).....Ah hell, I'll just make sure both tanks are full when I scale the car - the end.
I posted this thread to get some tech answers, but nothing could give me any more satisfaction than this. Antihuman, you just made me smile. Thanks.
But you`re naturally one Smiley Guy--ain`t cha? Keep us posted...and remind everyone about the T Shirt deal....
Okay. I hereby solemnly vow NOT TO CRACK ANOTHER SMILE, until every HAMBer is wearing a genuine Gosson Bros. Sodium Cyborg Tour T-shirt! That's because I won't have enough gas money to make it to B-ville, unless everyone here buys a dang shirt. So hey - make a crusty old hot rod guy smile, okay? Panic over to the For Sale threads and find the "Help support the Bonneville dream" post and buy your shirt today! It's just the right thing to do, plus they're cool shirts. The event is only 5 months away and so far, I barely have enough gas money to get out of my neighborhood - and NO money for oil, parts, food, etc. Donating blood didn't raise much cash, so now we're planning a couple of local fundraising events (a dinner and a concert - can a bake sale be far behind?). The t-shirts still look like our best bet to make it to the salt... Okay, now I feel dirty and need a shower. I just feel so...spammy...but my God, how I want to smile again!!!
Common thoughts on ballast is that it should be between the axles and low. Sorry about the shirt. I need the money for my fuel bill to get to the salt.
Ha! You're forgiven, Rich! Maybe you should be selling shirts. In fact, I should really give you guys shirts for the good info and support here! Thanks so much. So Rich, when I get there, should I look for the car an your avatar? I'd like to shake your hand, if you'll be at WoS. Maybe we should have a HAMB meet&greet there? Scotty
I agree with running the tire pressure as high as the tire recommends or the rules allow. The best place to add ballast is low on the frame between the centerline of the front and rear axle. When you are scaling the car keep in mind that to change the front to rear or side to side weights you must move and or add/remove weight. Cross weight can be changed by adjusting spring preload. If you have your sway bars mounted by then make sure that you have one end disconnected when setting cross weight, otherwise the sway bar will preload and throw off your readings. Also make sure that you have the car full of fuel and driver weight in the seat. You want to have the car as close to race condition as possible when you scale it.
Thanks Red! That's the plan. Now I'm re-thinking how to drill the rails for bolting the weight on - original idea was to bolt on long strips of steel, but now I think several smaller sections would allow for more fine-tuning of weight. And yeah, I sure hope I remember to unbolt the anti-roll bar before scaling - I can just see me pulling my (remaining) hair out, while cussing those "stupid scales"! As for tire pressure, I was thinking of going full pressure (35psi) up front, but less than full in back (running 35psi on a 40psi max) for more grip - is my thinking wrong here?
I'll be at Speedweek only to deliver the engine from the roadster to the Speedway guys for inclusion in their museum. I expect to run at WoS with the pictured car. "Worlds fastest Packard Powered Post War GM Product" I believe that 50 psi is recomended as minimum tire pressure.
I cannot speak from personal experience as i have never been on the salt. However, a very good friend of mine (same guy that helped me build my race engine) set 2 records at Bonneville in the mid 80s told me that there is no such thing as grip on the salt. He told me that if he wasnt careful with the throttle he could break the tires loose at 180 (think scary). The thinking with the higher tire pressures is that you have less rolling resistance which equates to speed. Since speed and not all out acceleration is what you are looking for I think that the higher tire pressures would be the way to go. I am sure that some of the guys on here that have actually been on the salt will be able to better advise you than I am able to on tire pressures since all od the racing I have done has been on dirt and pavement. Another thing that I have done in the past is to talk to the tire manufacturer for suggested tire pressures. I must warn you, once they find out that you are planning on running Bonnevile they may become very tight lipped with their information.
As far as mounting ballast, a very effective method is to pour lead into 2x2 tubing then drilling a couple of 1/2 inch holes in them to run bolts through. The tubing will be resistant to the bolt pulling through so your mounting will be secure. if I remember correctly a 2inx2inx2ft lead filled tube weighs about 20 pounds or is it 40, crap this getting old stuff aint for sissies.
Okay Rich - I'm assuming the 6 cylinder in the roadster was a Wayne head job? And that Vega is Packard powered? Oh yeah - we're gonna get along just fine...
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