86 Jetta gas sipper is the newest thing we own..I don't pay any attention (other than keeping them tuned up proper) to the mileage on our older V/8 cars..just wanna cruise and have fun..You cruise that new Ranger around the block and it depreciates $2000...
My two cents...... My daily is a Merc Grand Marquis wagon. I paid $800 for it last fall. 160K miles, non-smoker, rust under the woodgrain. It gets about 19 mpg, I think mostly because of the 3.55 gears, which helps it go like hell! I have owned 5 Box-Bodied Panthers and the sedans always got 20-25 mpg with 3.08 gears. Today I paid $3.29 for fuel and I would like to get a small car, but I have two kids to haul and where will I put my upright bass? I'm not strapping it to the roof! I'm with the folks that think after you pay for that new, small car, what have you really saved? My brother has always laughed at me for the junk i've driven. He's one of those that has to have the best and newest of everything. He leases [a fancy name for RENTS] TWO cars!! Its bad enough when you buy them, at least you have something left when they're paid for, but leasing has got to be the dumbest thing for a personal car! I asked him: "What are you going to do when you're done with the lease?" "Lease another!" What a waste of money. I like driving beaters. I don't have to worry about parking lot dings, rust, thieves[usually] and they only last a few years, so I get something new every 1-2 years. And when I look out to the parking lot at work, I can easily pick out my car from amongst the titanium/slate/drab grey econo-eggs out there. My goal is to open a funeral home when I finish my schooling, and one of my dreams is to have a black Escalade ESV. Especially the '07 with the vents on the front fenders. But it'll be a 5-10 year old one!! I'll let someone else pay $60K+ for it. This will allow me to go anywhere and any weather to go answer a call. But I'll have to have a classic hearse for funerals.
Eight years ago I replaced my '73 1/2 ton Ford with a new Escort -- paid $8900 for it. It gets 40 mpg. I pull my fishing boat with it regularly, use it to pick up all of my hotrod parts with a small flatbed trailer (and the mileage drops to a whopping 36 mpg). This last year I pulled a '46 Ford 1/2 ton parts truck on a tow dolly about 60 miles with it. I have never gotten stuck in the MN snow, I use it for all of my hunting trips and go all of the same places that the guys with the $40,000 4 wheel drive trucks go (of course the trucks can go more places than I can, but they don't for a number of reasons). I can make it to 70 MPH by the end of the freeway on ramp just in time to stomp on my brakes for the dead stopped rush hour traffic. In the 150,000 miles I have owned the car I put in a set of rear springs (one of the known Escort defects). I also repaced the alternator, and just this past week the dreaded check engine light came on. Took it to a local parts dealer that loans out a code scanner, they even hooked it up for me. Gave me the code (running too lean) and told me to buy an O2 sensor (I did a little reading about the code and instead of the O2 sensor I cleaned the mass air flow sensor with a $4 can of electrical switch cleaner and it runs great again). I love the hotrods that I have built. I would never drive them in a MN winter, I would never leave them unattended in a public parking ramp while at work, so its important to have a daily driver and this one has been great -- it has saved me a ton of money that I could spend on my hobby. If you think you need a new truck, go for it. I wouldn't hesitate buying a 4 cylinder Ranger. Think about it this way -- the '46 1/2 ton that I am now working on originally had less HP than the Ranger 4 cyl and was originally driven only 20 years before it was junked! Not much different than todays cars, modern cars just get crushed faster than they did in the past. The 6 cylinder will likely last longer and full size truck with an 8 will likely last even longer yet. IMHO I would just buy what you think is right, drive the 4 cyl and make sure it will do what you need for a daily driver and make your decision based on that. Good luck.
I just got rid of my two wheel drive 1994 2.3 liter four cylinder Ford Ranger and bought a 5.4 L V-8 2005 F-150, the best milage I ever got with the ranger was 23 mpg, and I bought it when it only had 30,000 miles on it. The best milage with my new V-8 F-150 was 21mpg usually average about 18 or 19. I haven't heard of anyone getting 30 mpg with a ranger, if they did I might think about getting one, but that little four cylinder was so underpowered, I'm happy with my V-8. I drive my Harley all summer long and get 50mpg or better with that
I agree, talk to some people who have a ranger, 30 MPG sounds un realistic. My 4cyl 1997 Ranger got between 22-24 mpg with a standard transmission. Automatics get less. Watch out for Ford on their MPG numbers, sometimes they are overly optimistic. (I work for Ford Motor Co. I know how they are. It's not the same corporation we were 10 years ago let alone 100 years.)
Like PW, PDL, ABS, CC, A/C, tinted glass, intermittent wipers, optional carpeted floor mats, full coverage insurance, bank loans...
Other way 'round. The Mazda pickup is/was (still make it?) a rebadged Ranger with slightly different sheetmetal.
For those who THINK the Toyota Prius is the car of the future; read this ... http://clubs.ccsu.edu/Recorder/editorial/print_item.asp?NewsID=188 And who ever said, "There ain't NO FREE RIDE", must have been smiling!
That's odd. I know a guy that makes an awsome living crushing cars to recycle the metal. There are no laws that mandate that the metal be recycled its all MARKET driven. I worked for a plastics injection molding company. They didn't just throw away the excess plastic from the molds, they recycled it back into their molding system, because it was cheaper to chop up the chunks than it was to buy new pellets. I could go on for hours discussing all of the market driven recyling that I know of and I have seen in my life
I just got 26 mpg recently on a trip with my 115,000 mile '98 Mustang GT with 115,000 mile plugs, 115,000 mile plug wires and 115,000 miles fuel filter. Totally stock car. I've had people say I should sell it and get a Focus because I could get 30 mpg. To which I ask....so I can get 4 more mpg AND have a car payment? My Mustang is paid for. I'd have to burn a lot more gas to match what a new car payment would be and I'd only save a tiny bit on fuel. It'll pass just about anything when I want it too and do it quickly and it has power to climb hills. So the best thign is to get soemthign that will last well beyond the "piad for" point. That's when you start "saving" the most.
1993 ranger 2 wheel drive regular cab 4 popper and a 5 speed different air box (k&N) and air inlet pipe... not ricer crap opened up the exhaust i got 26 mpg with an engine hoist tools jack and everyhting else you would need to pull a engine from chicago to Penn. oh ya it has just crested 285,000 payed $500 3 years ago i almost bought a cab corner patch pannel at the last swap meet but couldn't bring myself to pay the 10 bucks on it i love it the way it is tom oh ya no emmissions for 93 and older around here anymore
that's fine if you really believe that all the Hummers out there are really going to be on the road for 300,000 miles vs. only 100,000 for a prius. i guaranfuckintee they will not.
I just want to say thanks, to Brian. This thread touches alot of sound perspectives. In 1988 I began working after school hours-teaching, on a solar-electric vehicle for the NE Tour de Sol race. The first car evolved into three cars over the next couple of years, as our school team grew. We quickly moved from calculating MPG, to watthours per mile. Before long, you could tell whose car had reserve capacity-battery bank type & size, whose car had extra power available, whose car handled the extra battery bank weight, etc. Point I would mention is that the young people who designed and drove the car(s) in the event, learned more than we could ever teach, from a blackboard. Did I mention that the entire event was a blast? Too, that we all came home after a week on the road, feeling that we had done all we could. Yes, the students and us old guys, would see the same industry-driven SUV ads, and simply shake our heads. Those of us in the Hot Rod world are closer, and more appreciative, of our instruments. My sense is that there may be answers yet to be found, or tried, or refined. Ryan, thanks to you for this forum. JP Here's a green vehicles page from the Tour founders. These are some manf's cleaner offerings. http://www.nesea.org/transportation/evs.html
I can't bring myself to replace my car with 235K and 19 mpg for a car (with a payment) that is smaller than half the size of what I drive now, to save 5 mpg. I'll keep my 86.
"Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid." From: http://clubs.ccsu.edu/Recorder/edito...asp?NewsID=188 Wow, a prius costs $325,000 in energy for 100,000 miles of use. To be fair to all that think that the Prius mileage is over rated lets assume that the Prius gets 30 MPG average for those 100,000 miles. At $3.00 per gallon that's $10,000 in actual burned fuel by the car. So what they are saying is that the manufacturing energy used costs $315,000? On a $30,000 car? If this is true I don't think you need to worry about the hybrids taking over -- Toyota will be bankrupt in only a matter of weeks if they are taking that much loss per car!
pitman-- I was involved with the high mileage competition that SAE put on back in the 80s, as my senior project in engineering school. I learned more doing that than I did in all my other classes anyways, that prius/hummer comparison article is pretty funny... "The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid. The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. " so if you play with your expected lifetime of both of them to your advantage, then you get the numbers you want. Real life both will probably have an average lifetime of 200k miles, so the total cost (however they figured that out?) would be about twice as high for the hummer as for the prius. Would the price of gas go down if we conserved on a massive scale? sure...but we'll never know, because we could never do it! haha
I guess you nail the point. Some of us would maximise the fun per $1.00 of fuel, and some would chose to maximise the fun. I guess that's why (I) say I'm an engineer? As to Hummers vs Rods? Would I ever see the need to haul around expanded pieces of steel, alloy and plastic.., designed and sold by someone else? when rodding allows me to design and build? Not this time around! Thanks to Dr Squirrel
I love these competitions. My oldest son is on his school's team and I just got back from the state competition last night. My son's team got an average of just over 500 MPG and was in about 7th place, the winner got over 700
Man, my 4-banger S-10 gets the sme mileage as I could get with a stock 305! I'd rather have a V8! ~Jason
Complete apples and oranges comparison. My daily gets 16 on a good day so I'm not pushing everyone buy a hybrid. I just dislike misleading arguements. You will be plowing all sorts of money into the hummer over 300,000 miles. You will likely replace 80% of the moving parts. So if something on the Prius breaks you junk it, but if it breaks on the Hummer you just fix it? Why can't I just pull the broken part out of a wrecked Prius from the junkyard and continue motoring? Not saying Squirrel that you were pushing the arguement. I realize I quoted you who were just explaining the arguement. It's a bogus arguement. If you don't want to drive a Prius, you don't have to make up silly arguements to justify it.
I am a full sized guy (6'6" 260 lbs.) so compacts are a joke to me. But my full sized GMC Z71 will get 20 mpg on the rooad if I drive responsibly, so in reality I get 18. That's good enough for me. Especially since that's all my wife's 4runner can get. My truck drinks more gas than a Ranger, but I probably eat and drink more than the guy driving the Ranger.
Where does the 100,000 mile durability figure on the Prius come from? That is pretty imposrtant if valid. Any car that's only good for 5 or 6 years has to be an economic and environmental disaster even without all the batteries. 300,000 without replacement of major bits has been possible for a long time on decently maintained piston cars, and I think it is getting easier to attain because tighter manufacturing controls and better metallurgy are lessening the difference between good and bad random examples of a car...sixties cars I think had a lot of random mechanical durability variation because some engines and trans were sloppy from the start. Modern cars also are much better rust protected, so you're not driving a disintegrating block of salt and rust at 300,000... I've run two Novas well past 300,000 with all major components still in use, but either body would likely disintegrate if I slammed a door too hard. Probably best comparison here would be Prius vs a lump of similar size, like a Corolla.
I don't think Squirrel was pushing the arguement. He quoted as I did the arguement in an article slamming the Prius posted by Digger Dave. My point above is that the $3.25 per mile of energy (as quoted by the article) is totally obsurd. The numbers cannot possibly work out! I don't own a Prius and I wouldn't push my Escort on anyone, I was just stating my experience. I agree that we shouldn't make up stuff like $3.25 like the authors of that article did. It makes hotrodders look bad when we use useless information like that -- its so easily disproved that its laughable. I say do what you can and don't discourage others from doing what they want. Of course that said I do think 30 MPG for a 4 cyl Ranger is overly optimistic, but then again I have never owned one.
Hey---If I want to drive around, have fun, do "jack rabbit starts", drive like a teenager, burn lots of gas, thats what the hotrod roadster pickup in my avatar is for. If I want to be respectable "Mr. Businessman" and commute down to the city, impress potential new customers for my design engineering business, and drive something all day on the turnpike at 80 miles an hour in relative comfort, then thats what my Ranger is for. I don't begrudge a penny of the money I spend for "hotrod gas". I hate every penny I have to spend on gas for the business truck.
Aren't there any Oldsmobile Diesels around anymore? Biodiesel in a livestock tank in the bed of a truck... it's something I've been kicking around. With gas so high I may have to make good on my threats... ~Jason
what really pisses me off, is when people cite this "study" and pick and choose which info they include. my boss was passing around an editorial written by someone at a major manufacturing trade magazine, titled "save the earth, buy a hummer!", the writer conveniently forgets to include the important facts, like the claimed life expectancy of the vehicles. so we end up with a bunch of people who are not given the facts, and then only skim the story, and think that mile for mile, a hummer is more efficient than a prius. then those of us with enough brain cells to critically analyze the situation are left to try to convince someone that they did not really just read that a hummer is more efficient than a prius.
Ray, I respect the concept that hybrid technology is still in it's infancy, but what about improving on already existing technologies, like biodiesel and more importantly greasel? The first combustion engine ran on OLIVE OIL; I'm pretty sure there's no shortage of veggie oils out there with all the fast food we eat. I also wouldn't need to create any additional waste by producing batteries that create more pollution. All the materials used to convert an existing diesel to a greasel is available in a junkyard. I ALWAYS question the motives of a corporation or governing entity that telling me that they're doing things in our best interest, especially when their track record shows the opposite. Toyota's main priority is MAKING MONEY, I think they could really care f#ck all less about the environment, especially considering how polluted Japan is. The latest excuse for the gas price rise is that no new refineries have been built since the 70's (and of course, there's a backhand swipe at the environmentalists for not alllowing them to build more) Hotrodding is about improving on an existing platform. Gale Banks' interview in Garage (Aria Giovanni cover) brings up some interesting points on subject. I would also like to add that anytime you find "statistics and facts" concerning a subject, always check the source for bias.
Hey I'm not begrudging your new ride. I just want to be part of the can of worms. personaly I couldn't care less how anyone spends their cash or gets from point a to b. But everyone should be aware of my plan to not leave a damned thing when I go, granted I doubt I could ever personally burn it all but I don't think if we (HAMBers) all drove Sherman tanks as dailies we wouldn't put a dent in it.
The Jalopy Journal
