I can tell you from experience to NOT run mechanical brakes...no way in hell you can stop in a panic...and in today's cell phone, let's put on make up while we're driving and 3 kids in the minivan while Mom sips her latte....you're gonnna need to panic stop more than once... NOT a wise decision...no matter how "trad"... A rear end collision is going to COST you...your insurance company AND your hot rod...all in the same swift "ahhhhhhh shit" motion...!!! R-
My understanding is that guys traditionally swapped to juice brakes as soon as possible. I will have a few mech. parts left over when I do the swap, you can have them if you want them...just promise not to drive behind me!
Why do you suppose traditional hotrodders put juice brake on their rods. I did in 1955. My uncle gave me a car, but said I couldn't have it until I put juice brakes on it. Put 40 brakes on a 37 slantback.
I have a friend who runs his A with 1930 mecahical brakes. He is banger powered and runs 10.80's in the eighth with it. He has modified the workings inside to full floaters (I think) and that car locks em up faster and harder than my A on hydraulics. Not something I would suggest, but just saying it can be done.
Yup, I am. Decent (new) cast drums, floaters, and no slack in the rods and they work great. You just got to keep on top of the adjustments - check and adjust every 3-4weeks. I even pull a 1100lb camping trailer to drag meets with it.
I have put over 25000 miles on a Model A sedan with mechanicals. I drive it up to 55-60 mph and it will lock the wheels at 30. The secret is to eliminate all play in the system and replace any worn components. Adjustment is key. I have to admit, I do find myself driving more defensively in the A than I do in my modern ride.
I moved out in the middle of nowhere. I was thinking of building something with a 4 banger to drive around on the country roads. The only traffic I will have to deal with are the tractors. Just something to play with. Not that I really need anything else.
That's fine but it is more maintenance heavy and probably costs more than a good set of hydraulics, too!
Being able to "lock 'em up" is one of the poorest yardsticks to measure your brakes performance. If that's all it took to achieve optimal braking they never would have come up with hydraulic much less disc brakes - regular mechanical brakes with enough leverage will lock 'em up just fine - granted, but efficient braking is WAY MORE involved than that. Efficient braking means generating the maximum amount of heat - once you lock up the wheels you've already "lost" the battle. Think I'm full of crap?? - look at the dragsters - in the old days they thought that hazing the tires was the best way to achieve max traction - wasn't too long when good ole schieffer prooved just how wrong they really were. Schieffer realized that max traction would be achieved without spinning the tires but instead by slipping the clutch allowing the tires to get a "1 to 1 traction". Braking when you think about it really isn't much different. You want traction and NOT to lock them up. The time right before lock up is probably about the best stopping you're gonna get. THAT "zone" is a rather small one - anyting with a ton of leverage makes it difficult to "feel" your way to that zone. As another example - I just put disc brakes onto my convertible - bias ply tires don't grab worth shit anyhow so I was quite amazed how much better the brakes were with the discs - I didn't expect any noticeable improvement due to my crappy tires, but much to my surprise it stops substantially better. Why? because the discs offer better control - I can more accurately approach that "zone" just before LOCKUP. Being able to get to that zone faster and not going past it (locking them up) results in reduced braking distances. Can drums brakes work jsut as good - sure probably with a better driver than I am and maybe some well thought out tweaking you might be able to equal the discs - but there's no guarantee either. Mechanical brakes are a huge step backwards to efficient braking - the driver feedback just isn't there. We won't even get into the proportioning or dynamics of the system. It'd be a heck of a shame to crack up a cool hot rod due to inadequate brakes. I suggest you get some of those "deer whistles" or maybe a really good horn. Then again those early cars with the "rudder" steering is pretty trick - now THATS where it's at - Youre all sissys unless you have RUDDER STEERING
The basic answer you're looking for is yes. They work, but require attention often to ensure they are working properly. I'm not talking about, "Check 'em out once in a while to see if they are still working correctly" attention. I'm talking about they get out of adjustment pretty often, and you have to adjust them often. Hydraulics require maintenance MUCH less often. I drive 'em, and I've had a few scarry moments where I thought I wouldn't stop at a red light before rolling into cross traffic. Pulled the emergency brake at the last moment and was thankful it worked. Went home and adjusted them again. Drive for a while with them being fine, and you notice that they get worse again and then you adjust some more.
Trust me I am no way against juice brakes, I was just looking for something new to play with. Once I get my building ready to work in I might actually get to work on cars rather than dreaming up more projects.
I used the stock mech. brakes on my STOCK roadster for a while. They work just fine when PROPERLY adjusted and maintained. I even had to do a panic stop a couple of times... guess what? They worked and worked well (Some people would have you think that Ford vehicles didn't come to a stop until 1939). Using my own experence as a guide, I'm not sold on the whole "lack of pedal feel zone theory" when it is applied to mech brakes. I had no problem finding the 'zone'. I feel it's kinda like someone telling me that there is a 'difference' between the opperation of a hyd vs. mech linkage clutch system... there may be some, but I can still opperate it without any trouble. That being said, the brake system in question was designed to stop a stock Model A, not a Model A with a iron Hemi.
There are two manufacturers of stock-appearing cast iron drums for Model A's, Snyders or Brattons can sell you what you want. I have bonded shoes made where my brake supplier cuts down Kevlar mining car linings for me. I will do about 15-20 brake jobs on Model A's this year and while HemiRambler makes a good point about "locking 'em up" being a poor judge, I will say that that is a great place to start. The reason why most people start there is because they do not have enough pedal to even do THAT because the linkages and the system is worn out. Kevlar linings and new drums have never caused a brake fade on my cars, --but again, I only drive my cars at 60 mph or less.
Thorough rebuild is pretty complex, too, and may require some careful sourcing, as there are many suppliers of junk repro stuff ( I understand one company is selling CAST IRON clevises!). One of the really important parts is the roller track riveted to the plate--if it's not perfect you can't get proper contact, so this must be replaced or welded and ground... To at least some extent, floaters are an attempt to compensate for shoes that aren't where they should be in the great circle of creation and destruction... I have a couple of '30's brake manuals showing creative kludges to get '28-34 Fords out of the shop quickly, such as bending the horizontals on the track thing (NOT recommending, just history here...). The books also show oversized rollers with similar intent, and homemade floaters made by minor grinding of original bits. Point is that achieving full function requires exacting resto (which should be done before experimenting with mods like floaters, IMHO), detailed adjustment, and lots of followup. There are usually at least two different makers for any repro part, and usually at least one will be supplying an inadequate part. So, if a brake part gets you killed, try again with a different source... NOS is getting very scarce. IMHO, Bratton's is one supplier who endeavors to find or make the best, and he even has the decency to label problem parts in his catalog if nothing good is out there. Search the two search categories on Ford barn Model A; you will find way too many posts to read under "brakes", but a quick sort is to read any comment by Marco, who has some very informative hyperperfectionist views, and of course Brent. Mechanical restoration is VERY often a weak point in the Model A world. 1932 Front brakes are nearly identical to A, but 1" larger and equipped with iron drums from the factory...maybe a thought
Start with last week's on pedal conversions...then keep searching. It has all been covered pretty thoroughly. Use advanced search screen
I run stock mechanical brakes on my 28 roadster. No problems, stops when needed, even in heavy suburban Detroit area traffic. All that has been said in above posts does certainly pertain-good drums, shoes properly arched to match drums, no excessive linkage play, etc. My roadster is of course a really light car, so even though I can lock the brakes the car can/will skid on the tires (7.50 and 6.00 Firestones), but, they would do that if the brakes were hydraulic-just one of the drawbacks of having a lightweight car! Alot of people abandon the mechanical brakes because they are too lazy or don't have the know how to set them up right. One thing to keep in mind, especially if you are rough housing on dirt roads, is that you can rupture an add-on hydraulic line or blow an add on master cylinder and you will be brakeless; a mechanical system might fade or become slow to activate, but will never leave you totally without brakes!- GZ
A brief history of brakes: 1.) Fred Flintstone 2.) Mechanical Brakes 3.) Juice Drums 4.) Disc Brakes 5.) ABS I'd stay away from the Flintstone side of the spectrum.
No, but I did find this a while back,....I believe Magnus and Jonas are HAMBers,....at least of of them is! http://www.warhawks.se/main.html (just go to the tech section,...not sure how good they work though??)
hey found myself in my 30 tudor with 4 heavyweights in it coming over a rise to a downhill run==long story short ran it off road rather than hit object in road with pedal to floor and emergency brake on=was probably under the speed limit of 45, but it would not stop or lock up brakes period=and yes early hydraulics went out on me in old cars too=still safer and better to upgrade to best you can=saving money on brakes is plain stupid Ken
I cannot believe that with the communal intelligence shown on this site, that anyone can make a case for mechanical brakes. Particularly the statements about "locking 'em up". As a professional driver for many years( OTR trucker, 2 million accident-free miles, taxi-cab also) I'm here to tell you one simple fact. When you've "locked 'em up, you have lost control of that vehicle, and are no longer braking. There is an old adage among truckers about skids. " The locked wheel wants to lead." When you are locked up and skidding, the best thing to do is put your head between your knees and kiss your ass good-bye, because gentelmen ,you are OUT OF CONTROL . As simple as that. Are they even legal anywhere anymore?.......Ole Pork
im running mechanical brakes on my roadster, on our yearly MOT in the UK (yearly test which ensures your vehicle is safe to drive on the roads, test your brakes work, your steering works, lights work etc. etc.) the brakes were showing a measure of 88% efficiency (shows how efficient the brakes are before the wheels lock up)- yes they are all properly adjusted with good shoes/drums - however ive got hydraulic brakes on my coupe and we couldnt get the efficiency measure above 58%. now it might be because the roadster is a light car, whereas the coupe is a big heavy car, i dont know. the couple of times ive needed to pull up quickly the roadster has stopped on a dime. i thought about changing the roadster brakes to hydraulics but im going to leave them as is, if it aint broke dont fix it. also reading the above posts it would seem a lot of folk say to change to hydraulics - wonder how many people say change to hydraulics and have never even driven a car with mechanical brakes?
We have the same yearly MOT,TUV or car-testing in Sweden and i tested my 2001 Renault Kangoo delivery and a couple of weeks later i tested my -30 coupe. The result was the same, same equal high reading on the brake gauge. I was really surpriced. Fully adjusted A brakes with good linings can't be that bad. Of course i only drive half the fast with my -30 compared to the 2001 Renault. And second, my right leg are more bulky then my left one due to the higher pressure needed...;-)
can anyone tell me what the psi differene is in brake shoe pressure between mechanical and hydraulic (non power) brakes, i`d like to know a real number that comes from proper testing with a strain gage or some other form of force/presure measuring device.
The Jalopy Journal
