I was looking to get my Ford B block rebabbitted and have the crank ground, as it needs it. I found one place in Souderton, PA that will do it, but the guy on the phone sounded more annoyed than helpful. Complained that they'd have to reset their machine because my crank would need to be ground, thus a different size from the stock babbit...aka now we can charge you more!! I really dont want to deal with people like that, and I know there has to be better people with reasonable prices out here in PA. I'm located in the Allentown, PA area,... thanks in advance!
This place: http://www.schwalms.com/ Seems to have a good reputation...don't know anything first hand. If you like to live dangerously, there's a neat book on rebabbiting a Model T at home that would adapt easily to B...probably certain death in a river of glowing red metal, but at least an entertaining way to go.
hmm,....that name sounds familiar,....?? Yeah the price I got was $800 to do the cam grind and rebabbit,...well it was more like, and I quote, " ...well, about $800 or so, ya know it all depends,...we have to reset our machine,...about $800, maybe more,...." How about yourself?? who do you get to do that work
Brewster Machine here in Ohio. A family owned business still and in existence since the 50's will do your grind work. Call them. Ask for Ernie or tell them that Rick Geis sent you. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&u...93661&sa=X&oi=local_result&resnum=1&ct=result
I haven't had contact with this guy in about 10 years, don't know if he's still operating. He did A, B and V8 babbit, I used to grind shafts for him. Babbit Barn. W. B. Ketterer, Sellersville, PA. 215-257-4391
Just called him,...very nice guy to talk with. Unfortunatley he stopped doing it,....sold his equipment to the guy at the shop I talked with that gave me the rediculous price,.... oh well,..the search continues!!
I was afraid that might have been the case, been out of the PA loop for @ 10 years. Another old outfit is Hercules Welding and Machine in Palmyra NJ - 856-829-1820. Never had him do Fords - used him for all the oddball stuff and Chevy rods. Maybe worth a try. I'll send you a PM also.
All the guys Ive found that still do it are in their 80s, thus the grouchy at***ude. There was a guy that did them in Ohio just over the state line near new Springfield where Snyders is, maybe Columbiana. Id bet they could direct you to someone who does them
Oh no, this guy I mentioned had the bad at***ude is younger,..maybe 40's,...that has nothing to do with it,....I just wish they were reasonable and good to work with, I like to keep my money local and support local people/craftsmen. problem is, in our present world the vast majority of people dont take pride in what they do for a living anymore. I hope that when we have kids I instill that into he or she,...to p*** on what I , my parents and my grandparents instilled into their children. ...taht and I need a time machine,....still working on that!!!
Ah yes, Columbiana,OH. Birthplace of Harvey Firestone and uh, me too. R.K. Mc Kees would be the shop you refer too,and it is/was a time machine. Once featured in the Smithsonian Quarterly, I should have paid better attention to the stream of historic race pieces that went through there in my youth. Problem then was anytime you were down there they would put you to work and never any pay... Wish I had a time machine... Anyhow Prus is the guys name thats running it now. RK's still around,just not working it everyday. Firestone,Ford and Edison used to hang out in the area and when Harvey came up with the first tractor tire he hired Barney Oldfield to drive the tractor from his farm into town at the unheard of speed of 14mph. Speed IS relative.
I do believe Chuck Kuntz in Altoona, PA still does babbitting. Still, that's about 4 hours from Allentown, but you will p*** out when you see his collection of old Ford parts. He's a well-known seller on Ford Barn. clkuntz@altoona.com .
Red's Motor Machine, in Wilmington Delaware does T's, A'S, and B's Affordable, and good work. I have their number, but out in the shop. If you can't get it thru information, pm me- and stop in on the way down if you like, I'm on the way. Herb Kephart
Try Speed Equipment in Bensalem, PA. 215-638-0300, If they don't do it, I'm sure they know of someone in the area that does. Mark T
jason I have used schwalms.. (like 15 years ago) for a model a sedan project.. (resto) they do great work..
Well, let's break it down and see how it flows our, --or should flow out. The average price to 'pour & bore' the mains is roughly $400.00. The crankshaft grinding is another story depending on which crankshaft. If the crankshaft is a counterbalanced crank with the offset counterweights, then the weights must be removed from crank to grind the crankshaft journals. A standard A/B non-counterweighted crankshaft usually costs me $125 (plus cleaning charges) because not only must the journals be cut, but the crank must be straightened & the flywheel flange trued. If the weights need to be removed and re-installed you are generally looking at a $250 upcharge to re-install, pin, and balance. Now add in the price of block cleaning if so needed and I can see where someone would quote around $800.00. Now I am NOT saying Jason did this but so often in our business, people do not portray what they have as actual scenarios. I find we are expected to give an accurate estimate based off of what we are hearing but not what we are seeing. No one really likes controversy but suppose he said around $525 yet when the stuff arrived at his shop and he saw the extra work that needed to be done, what happens when he says well this is actually $800 worth of work. All this time you are complaining that he quoted $525 and mis-lead you to get you in the door!! Either way he is screwed, isn't he?? I am gonna tell you something else about Ora (the owner of Schwalms). He has a VERY strong reputation for doing quality work and with that said, I am sure he has plenty of work lined up. That also means there is a reason why he charges what he does. Shops that are charging less generally are short-cutting somewhere. I don't want this to be mis-understood or misconstrued so please read this closely. Contrary to what some may believe, many banger owners here do not have a thorough knowledge of what works and doesn't work (outside of hearsay), --or how to properly build a reliable Model A/B engine. With that said, I feel you either need to find a personal mentor that is willing to give away good information ...or you need to pay someone that has a great reputation of doing exactly what you are trying to accomplish (i.e: H&H, Ron's, Schwalms, Stipe, etc.). Case in point. I can tell everyone "how" to convert your engine to inserts HOWEVER there are two problems with this. The first is even though this operation has been printed several times in various mags, some people that have tried to have their block done by a local machine shop have found the block got ruined during the process because of a procedure that was misunderstood. Generally speaking, there is no turning back. Now if I was to tell what I know, what is in it for me? If the procedure is successful I get a thank you for all of my past trial & errors (i.e: ruined blocks and wasted/unsuccessful efforts) yet if something goes wrong and the block is ruined, then what I hear is I didn't know what I was talking about. My point in all of this is to get everyone to stop and think about what you are asking for, --and trying to accomplish. There is a boatload of difference between a 80 year old backyard shop that has experience in pouring babbit for a 40 horse stocker vs. a shop that has experience building bottom ends that will be able to stand the 75+ horses of abuse we know we will be inflicting on our new engine. Good quality machine work is expensive, ...and so is building a banger. Think through what you are wanting done and be honest with your goals. Then work a little overtime to help pay the tab on the better quality work. I promise you will never be sorry you had a quality job done even though it cost a little more.
Brent, do the shops commonly build up the shafts on A-B work?? Thickness is a big issue on babbitt durability, and of course most shafts are way under by now... I'm thinking through various issues on an engine and would like thin babbitt... Also, I always wondered howinhell A-B bearings ever survived with the caps tottering around on a fat stack of br*** shims, and I noted the 1950's speed builders call for no shims and reamed fit through bolts...I was amazed at finding thin steel shims in a fairly original diamond B, then I found Marco's report on this: Ford shims were indeed steel and a great deal thinner than the br*** ones now sold. So think about the overall structure of the bearing area... My original steel shims are shot to hell...whoever took the engine apart tossed them into a can full of bolts and leftemall to rust, but I think it would not be hard to make one-piece shims from steel to start with and then make new ones from thinner stock if takeup was needed. I've bought a simple punch plate rig for making holes in shim, and the thicknesses involved can be cut to shape with shears...
Let me see if I can run down this list in an order you asked. Generally speaking from my experiences, most A/B cranks are not welded up. Only Model T's. IMO, undersized B cranks can be modified to be used in an A block so they still have value. Grosely undersized A cranks do not have value other than s**** prices. To address the question about excessive thickness, I am also one that feels like some builders use an excessive amount of shims. I too feel like good quality babbit honed and burnished to fit the crank does not need any shims and will last a long time. Where br*** shims get a bad rep is because the shims allow the cap to walk ...plus many cars detonate and cause extreme harmonics on the bottom end. If you make the shims just like you say and hand-fit each rod to the crank with .002", you will have a rod that can go 50K plus miles.
Ramblur, RK McKee is the guy I was trying to recall. I spent a great 4 hours there talking stock & race Model A's with him. He showed me his 220hp A powered sprint car. It was like talking to Wc Fields the way he talked. I was visitng relatives in Youngstown and looked him up, quite a guy, wasnt sure if he would still be alive or not. It was 4 hours Id have gladly paid for to learn what I did
Here McKee is as of two weeks ago when we were A.A.R.A. racing in Marietta, Ohio. **** has sold most of his race cars (and stuff), has hung up his helmet and took up flagging for us.
Just in case there was a mixup here, I was not referring to Ora when I mentioned a guy at a shop that was too expensive....I actually talked with Ora and he was great! VERY knowledgable and nice to talk with. I agree, someone who could mentor me with this is something I've been wanting to seek, but here there are basically no guys into this at all,...there is one gentleman who has built a few four bangers, he was at one time the treasurer of the AACA and when I first met him at his home a few towns away, he showed me a B he was working on. I think I'm going to look him up again as soon as I can. His name was "Sam"-something??
McKees dogs water dish was a Model A OHV valve cover he made. Thats him in the picture alright, a little older but still going, glad to see it. I could have talked to him for hours but I was thankful for what I got for time picking his brain. He only worked on babbit motors, nothing else
Mc Kee is definitely one of a kind and geez I thought he was old 30 yrs. ago. Once you get him started your gonna be there a while. Such a wealth of knowledge tho,growing up around him in the 70's I was always chasing high revving V-8's and just didn't have a lotta interest in his antiques. My loss. Back then he wouldn't even start on an T or A motor till he had at least a dozen of em lined up(which seemed like always). I worked at the mayors 1930's gas station and **** was up there everyday to BS,cripe we even had a couple weddings there. I'm planning to take my Hudson to the Hot Rod Cinematic,then to Columbiana for the 4th of July. **** will **** to see me with flathead power so I'll have to make a point to blame it on him...
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