more to come, i've got to have Grimlok shrink some of the pic......when I do it with Irfanview, to get them small enough to fit on the HAMB, they aren't high enough resolution.....
FINALLY!!!!!! I figured out how to resize pics and not lose too much quality!!!!! Someone please save one of the following pics on their computer, then pull it up to see if you can read it clearly. EDIT: Ok, guys, it looks like there are two ways to view these: 1. Save them onto your computer and then zoom in to read the text. 2. While on the HAMB, click on the image (where it becomes the only image on your screen), let your mouse "hover" over the image until the little square box comes available down in the corner, click on the little box and it should make it full screen- readable! Man, I'm stoked! I like to never figured this out! .....on with the Stromberg Tech........Bruce, get off of your Hershey high and get busy!
Looks fine - I can read it no problem - the last pic was the "worst" with much pixelation, but very legible.
Its good to read about the Summer/winter settings on the accelerator pump. I actually did a post on this and got nothing back.
It was the largest...full page, I had to convert it to B&W, and save it on the lowest setting.......just barely made it in under the max KB limit... Thanks for the feedback. I'm still working out some bugs....
We'll also post the Stromberg catalog pages, so you can ID parts from the cast-in Stromberg numbers. The Stromberg part numbers are completely different from the numbers assigned by Ford, and are cast into the main parts so you can be sure what you have. Stromberg designations are very confused, largely because there are several sets of designations drifting around. Here's what I know: Stromberg designations: This whole series of carbs is called the EE-1 type by the company. The "1" refers to 1" bore size, and is applied to all sizes close to that, .97, 1 (Lincoln Zephyr carb), an 1 1/32 model 48. The little .81 V8 60 carb was designated EE-7/8! Decimal bore size--81 and 97--went on some models on the left side, as with the famous "97". To further ID within this set, Stromberg cast the bore size in fractional form on the right side of main body and stamped original jet size on the back. Each main casting section carries a lengthy Stromberg part number which can be used to positively ID things. Rodder designations: 81 and 97, derived from bore size marking; "Zephyr", for the V 12 Lincoln Z model; and "48", probably derived from the Ford designation. Ford designations: All Ford carbs of all sorts carry the basic part number 9510, with prefixes to designate year and model of first use. A suffix calls out variations, in this case designating whether carbs were supplied with standard or high altitude (lean) jetting. Most suffixes you will see will be "A" for standard jets. 40-9510 Used on Fords in 1934 and early 1935. Same bore as a 48, has casting differences in idle air passages. I don't know much about these--plan to buy one to study. Obsoleted by the later version, now uncommon. 48-9510, the Stromberg 48. Used by Ford 1935 and partial 1936, obsoleted by 97. 52-9510 is the V8-60 81. It was first used in British production of 60's, which began in 1935--really. It was then released in the USA as an economy replacement carb for low speed city delivery commercials, then in 1937-38 on the first USA built V8-60's. 67-9510 is the Stromberg 97 as supplied by Ford. Stand up and remove your hat. Oddly enough, it was also released in 1936 as an economy replacement carb for commercials, but quickly became the major production carb because it gave better fuel control than the 48 and showed no loss of power. Both Ford and Stromberg thenceforth supplied this to replace the earlier carbs, supplying only parts and kits for the early types. Ford production line use 1936-38, aftermarket production til maybe early 1960's. LZ carb was used in minor variants on Zephyr line about 1936-39. Don't have number here, has "LZ" on bowl, part number prefix would have an H in it.
Prefix locations were on later carbs to help the parts man. Ford supplied 97's have the "67" on left side of bowl and top castings, as do 48's and 52's. I do not know if the 97's without the 67 castings are all aftermarket Stromberg supplied carbs or whether Ford stopped using the cast designations after obsoleting the early carbs. Model 40 is unmarked as it couldn't be mistaken for anything else in 1934.
Quick fleamarket parts ID for those wannabe lifestylers who didn't bother to tattoo the casting numbers on their bodies: First, remember most parts freely interchange, and decades of sloppy commercial rebuilders, hot rodders, and frugal farmers have thoroughly mixed up the gene pool. Probably half the carbs out there have mixed 97 and 48 parts. Bottom: Says EE-1 (or EE 7/8 on 81), little or no real casting difference between big carbs. 81 is markedly smaller bore. The 97 and 81 have two balls for accelerator pump rod to allow for adjustment. The earlier carbs had but one, but frequently have had the parts replaced with 97 items. Middle: ID by those cast-on designations. Usually no problem to ID. Top: Those carbs that had the two accel balls also differ upstairs; 97 and 81 castings have an extra small hole on right side, next to the hole for choke shaft. This contains (or contained) a little bullet-shaped pin on a spring that served as a choke detent, clicking in to a hole on the choke lever to lock choke at fully open position. The choke lever that matches has an extended area for said hole--48 type levers lack this whole area, and will snag on the detent pin and cease to function! a carb with 48 lever and 97 top must have the pin removed.
There are a couple of different styles of bases too. Most are D shaped but some come with a more triangular shape like you see on an Offy manifold.
Alien Strombergs: Ford was not the only user of EE's, but the others were all much smaller companies. I know some models of Cord, Packard, and Nash used them. These all have visible casting differences--provisions for ported vacuum, nonFord choke hookups, and so on. I saw a Packard one at Hershey once that had the accel pump rocker reversed and activated from Left--very unsettling, like a flopped photo. There is also an earlier Stromberg with an A in its model designation that looks a great deal like a 97, right down to the plugs for the jets, but is substantially larger. Some have a bent back-draft top. I believe these are from early 1930's big Lincolns.
The D shape is by far the most common; I believe the other shape, which essentially matches that used on 94 type carbs, was used only on some very late production aftermarket 97's. Since Stromberg was mostly selling 97's by then as parts counter replacement carbs, maybe the change was for a neater look on late Fords. The bolt pattern of the Strombergs and later Ford carbs was of course the same, but ther is one potentially nasty mismatch: Iron Stromberg type manifolds of the thirties had a heat passage opening that happens to line up with the vac port for the power valve on a Ford carb--instant fried power valve and puzzling mixture problems when the gasket burns through.
Stromberg EE-1 1932-42 Mecury Dated 4-1-45 EDIT: save it and check to see if you can read it, i know it's a bit blury but that's about the best I can do unless I cut the page in half..... let's do this, if you want the larger, clearer copy, email me and I'll send it to ya! EDIT: more added on 11-02-2005
large logo 97 and a small logo 97 also, a "no" logo 48 Bruce, are there any real differences among these carbs?
The no logo is a 48; small logo carbs bear the "67" Ford designation on main body and upper casting. The really dark shot was meant to show an 81 base marked EE 7/8 in comparioson to the regular EE 1 used on all other models.
Next, look at the two flics showing two carbs only; those show the air horn difference between 48 and later carbs, 2 versus 3 holes. The extra hole holds a spring loaded detent plunger that pops into a hole on the lever to hold choke fully open. The lever meant to be used with this has an extra area abaft the big hole to cover the plunger area. If a 48 lever is used on a late top, the plunger must be removed or it will immobilize the choke. Down below, the 48 throttle lever has a single ball to work the accelerator pump rod. The 97 and other late carbs have two balls, allowing adjustment of pump shot and timing. All of these parts are frequently mixed on carbs that have been messed with. I think the pump adjustment is a good feature to have, as pump shot is the one thing that actually doubles with dual carbs.
As far as I know, there are no real differences between large and small logo 97's. There are plentiful minor variations due to different molds, but I think no design differences.
How about a few exotic stroms made under the license of Stromberg by the Stromberg-Zenith Co. of France. Some have venturi size in mm like 24.6 for 97 or 22.2 for 81. Some have different bowl casting. Found one with alumium throttle base, never saw that again.
Really cool! I love foreign variant Ford stuff. The one with rusty levers looks like it might be for a later model application, rather like the linkages used '49-53 here...any idea what it's from? I now have a couple of Ford Germany parts books, one from the thirties and one 1943... They show both American and European carbs, probably an English variant for the B and I think Solex for V8. What came from where?? I know Ford England supplied lots of stuff to France and Germany, though not in the 1943 book (!). Germany also used USA stuff, I think. When did Ford Germany become a full manufacturing plant making its own engines and chassis? Mid 1930's?? I've forgottem almost all my German and can't extract much from the books I have. The wonderful Ford red background '32 emblem I have was cast in England!
Good input, just the kind we are looking for...... Thanks for sharing this info! Edit: You know, as I look a little closer at the pics, you can kind of tell that they are not US made. I know I'm taking a long shot here, but German stuff always "looks" a bit different in color and texture. They look like high quality castings and possible higher quality.....dunno..... You guys know what I'm talking about. Look at the steel in an old industrial machine vs. a modern day produced one. The color and texture of the steel is much different looking. That's why all of us look for the older stuff....IMHO
Bruce, as far as I know Ford had an assambly plant for model A's in Berlin. In 1930 they startet to build the rael big factory in Köln. The real start was with the model B/18. As a sample all german made chassis where stamped "Made in Germany". Except for this marking there is no difference. The bodys where made by the Ambi-Budd Co. of Berlin. Cabriolets/phaetons where made by several other companies like Drautz, Hebmüller,Papler, Buhne, Wendler ect. In 1935 the german Gouverment gave the order to sell all Ford cars under the label "Ford-deutsches Erzeugnis". Usually the blue grill emlem schows this after 1935 on german made cars. From this point on almost all parts for german Fords where cast, machined and assembled in Germany. If I find the time i will take a pic of such grille emblem and put it on here. I have sold a couple of them to the US while ago. Now the carburators. The ones in the pictures are all off of french Matfords. Like in the US they did put V8/85 and V8/60 in passenger cars. I might find a pic of such Matford cabriolet. The germans used stroms up til the mid 30's. After that and during the war the used several differnt SOLEX carbs. 2 venturis on V8's and 1barrell downdrafts on the postwar 4cylinders (G28T). When ever you need special information on the german stuff, let me know. I can help. Flathead youngin' indeed most of the german castings are much better than the american counterpart. It has to do with the fact that military standards where always a big deal in Germany. Specially from the mid 30's to the end of the war. Engine blocks are much stronger than the americans one. Cracks are almost no issue on german cast blocks. But on the other hand there was no speed equipment (with a very few exceptions) made over here. So everything has good and bad sides.
I'd like to keep this a Stromberg thread, so let's move German Ford to a new window--this is really cool stuff. You MUST show the troops an aluminum pan and a timing plug equipped front cover! Do you have any bits of a '35-36 V8 60?? Now, that's STRANGE hardware!
Ok this goes too far out. If you could open a new thread for the non carb stuff. I 'm afraid I'm too dumb to do that. I'll dig out a couple of alu pan pic's. I think I have 3 different ones. First is 99/59A type set up for Bosch second is american 18/Bendix I have one more of a 99/59A type pan set up for Bendix starter, but I dont find the picture. might take a new one tomorrow.
D shape versus triangular base...same bolt pattern. Early Ford manifolds have either D or triangle depending on the carb originally supplied...so why the extra metal for the D shape?? That came from Stromberg's needs, not Fords! Several EE-1 variants used on Packards and such were four bolt with the rear pair closer spaced than the front...those two rear holes went through the extra metal on the D!
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