side steering question

Ok, I'm an idiot.

Now that we have that fact established, on to my question about side steering boxes........

Question #1.) Is this statement correct?:
Generally most OEM boxes are designed so the pitman arm shaft is to the right of the input (from the steering column) shaft. So when you flip the box over so that the pitman arm shaft is to the left, the pitman arm must be at the 12:00 position in order to work properly (not at 6:00 at they should be). Thus these boxes need be reversed for a side steering application.

Question #2.) Are their any affordable steering boxes which do not require being reversed for side steering?

It takes a village to be an idiot.

 

This depends on if you want the pitman arm to point up or down. For an upward facing arm, alot of people use mustang boxes, not sure what years, but they work (not very traditional). Some use a cross steer box (vega etc.) and mount it sideways. This leaves the arm facing up.

If you want the arm to point down this is where alot of guys use a reversed corvair box. They can be had for $175 rebuilt and reversed. Not bad. I like to use the f-1 era truck steering box. They work great, and have a real stock look.

Explain a little more what you are doing(ride height etc) and you can get some more exact advice.

 

The "famous" and quite traditional "Mustang" steering box is found in Mustang/Cougar, Falcon/Comet, Maverick/Comet and possibly Fairlanefrom the early 60s(Falcon) to the early-mid 70s(Mustang, Maverick/Comet). Early boxes have integral steering shafts(to the steering wheel), later ones have short shafts with rag-joint couplers.
These have been in use in early cars for some 30+ years now, where does tradition begin?
In the early days guys often used 37-48 Ford side-steer boxes rolled over to fore-aft steering configuration as well.

 

What Im trying to say it that if you are building a period correct car to an era very often used (early fifties, late fifties, early sixties) A steering box from the seventies would stick out like a sore thumb. Nothing wrong with using any box.

Build and let build.......

 

Who's to say some guy or guys in the early 60s didn't use a Falcon box in their Model A or 32 or whatever? The availability of the parts to be used should be the usability factor not whether it was ever featured in a magazine or not for general consumption.

 

Hey Rob Paul,

My side steering set up will need a pitman arm pointed down (AKA @ 6 o'clock). My Model A is channeled over a 2x4 frame an sits pretty low. I've got a suicide front end and the original (not dropped) front axle.

Will any of the '60s Fords mentioned in this post work without reversing the box?

Here's a design drawing and a recent photo of my set up to give you a better idea.

Thanks.

 

stupid question maybe, but do you plan to run it with the spring upside down like that? If so, I think you better reverse the spring stacking.

 

Find a decent Tri-Five Chevy Saginaw box and send it to me along with $350 and I'll return it ready to mount in your project-it'll extend thru the cowl and the pitman arm will be at 6:00 O'clock . I've done it many times and it works like a dream.

 

Front steer and rear steer boxes turn
the output shaft in opposite directions.

Take a look at the old VW Bus box for side steer.
They were used before the early Mustang became popular.

Or the old Ford trucks.

 

I will run a spring upside down, but not this one. this one's a Posies with little blisters for the nylon slides, so I can't reverse the spring stack. The spring I use will be reversed.

 

Do early Mustangs work without reversing?

 

This aluminum Mopar box will allow you to have the pitman arm in the 6:00 0'clock position. Someone here can tell you what car it's from.

It's what I'm using in a similar car.

 

Early 70's Dart,Duster,Polara,etc.

 

So are you guys telling me that '60s Mustang, etc. boxes won't have the pitman arm @ 6 o'clock without reversing the input shaft?

 

I'm pretty sure the aluminum Mopar box is mid '60s to mid '70s across all body lines and even pickups. I had several new car take offs that I let get away last time I moved - kick me please, I'm looking for 1 now for my current project.

 

The Mustang box is usually used for side steer mounted under the frame rail with the arm pointing up. If you want to use it for cowl steering with the arm pointing down (6 o'clock) it needs to be reversed. Try a search for cowl steering, there's been some threads with BMW, Mopar and some other boxes.

 

Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it.

 

realy hate to ask this but the more i read the more i get confused. why cant it sit at 6oc? the pitman should be able to sit at any direction due to the splines right?

 

YES!

 

It sits at 6 o clock, at the mid way point. But the Mopar pitman arm will have to be modified, anyways, basically cut off at the flange, so it does not really matter.
A new (longer) pitman are will have to be fabricated.
A search will acctually reveal, quit a few tech posts, on the subject.

 

What is commonly refered to here as "Side Steer",
the Pitman Arm usually points up.

Cowl Steer,the Pitman Arm points down.

You CAN unbolt the Pitman Arm and switch it
from one way to they other.






But then your wheels will steer in the opposite direction
when you turn the steering wheel.

Many steering boxes are manufacturered with a Master Spline,
so the Pitman Arm can only be assembled one way.A little creativity will solve that small problem.

 

didnt know about the master spline, thanks. what is done when you reverse a gearbox? kinda a do-it-yourselfer and without having one in front of me im not sure what im dealing with but is new gears added? or just reconstructed to turn the opposite direction?

 

The easy way to tell if your steering box is O.K. for cowl steering with the pitman arm at 6:00 o'clock is to turn the input shaft clockwise. The output shaft end must turn counter-clockwise.

 

Ok now your talking about a frame mounted side steer setup, but the drawing you have included with your pic shows a COWL steering setup. If your car sits as low as it looks cowl steering might be the ticket, and this seems like what you want.

If thats the case then reserch the tech archives for some great cowl steering posts. Ir you have any questions ive built a few setups using a F-1 box with the sector shaft lenghtened.

Later, ROB

 

Mine will be cowl steering with the pitman arm at 6 o'clock (pointed down). My mistake for calling it side steering, as I didn't know these terms weren't interchangable.

I learned a lot to today (as I always do) on the HAMB. Don't feel like such an idiot aferall.

Thanks guys.

 

Yes, I learned alot too from this post. I was in the process of re-placing my cross steer/vega setup with a traditional style setup today. I took a break to do a Hamb search for some info and all the questions in my head -on the walk from the garage to the house, have been answered. Hey Moonglow, nice drawings by the way.

 

A friend of mine is doing a 31 roadster pickup, no fenders with cowl steering and is using a mid 60s BMW 2002 steering box. It is very cool. It would be worth looking into.
Rex

 

Thanks, I'll look into the BMW option.

 

If you are trying to do a cowl steering type of system, the aluminum Mopar box can be used with no reversing as is. I have one on my '27 Track T roadster project, and I have sold several to rodders in this area. I tried Mustang,Tri-5 Chevy's and several others, but all would need to be reversed. I turn the splined portion of the pitman arm down in a lathe to 1 7/8" o.d., and weld it into a piece of 2" o.d. x .120 wall round tubing at the required length. 2" o.d. tubing will allow you to tighten the nut holding the assembly to the box. The actual pitman arm can now be welded to the 2" tubing at whatever length you want. I used the front part of a '36 Ford rear wishbone for my pitman arm, and it looks right at home.

 

Lots of boxes will work....Mopar is the easiest to find. But, if you can build a car, you can reverse a box, simple.