You think hot rod parts are expensive?

Well people say the Americans cannot compete. Todays headlines about Ford show this to be different. They have passed Toyota in Quality and have 4 of the top 10 spots....Lincoln is # 3 right behind Porsche and Lexis........JD Power

 

Dealers don't make money in the showroom. They make it in the service department, body shop, and on the used car lot. If they could guarantee that you'd come back to them for service and parts, they'd give you the car at their actual cost.

 

I don't know that I totally agree with the statement about paying guys 90-100K is the problem...the guys earning that are giving up 50-60 hours a week of their time to earn that money. I would think rather it's the shareholders that won't own stock unless they are seeing huge profits,the golden umbrellas of 10-100 million dollars or even the suits that are pulling down massive salaries. Maybe they can cut some expenses in the perks dept. and keep americans working. Eventually even the cheap laborers will reallize they can form a union and fight for every benefit we have been getting for years...then where will GM and Ford go???
Damn I love my old truck even more after all this!

 

I agree with you Brewsir, everyone is quick to blame the Unions when costs rise, but the average wage the Union workers are making is still under the ratio of cost of living vs. salary. Its easy to say a janitor in a Big 3 plant is making $100,000. What you don't hear is the amount of overtime he's sometimes FORCED into working just to keep a job. Even still, when a economy car costs 17 thousand dollars, and a starter house in Metro Detroit where I live costs in the ballpark of $160,000....100k a year starts to dwindle really fast. 100k a year sounds like a lot of money, but it truly isn't.

I also agree with you as far as CEO's and shareholders are concerned. A Ford plant is forced to close its doors because of profit loss, but in the same moment, a CEO is given a 7 million dollar bonus for cost cutting. It doesn't hardly sound fair that he can eliminate jobs and ruin tens of thousands of peoples lives just so he can get a fat bonus check.

I know its off car topic, but as far as wasting money is concerned, or driving up the cost of goods and parts....when Kmart was filing bankruptcy, and they weren't sure if they were even going to be in business next week, they paid a guy who specialized in cost analysis.....9 MILLION DOLLARS!!!!...for him to say 2 months later that Kmart should go out of business because of profit loss!

I say if you want to drive down the price of cars and parts and service, instead of laying off blue collar workers, get rid of the tens of thousands of middle managers and the multi-million dollar CEO's that don't do anything. THEN see if you start to see a profit again.

I'm sorry for ranting, but as a Union worker who is laid off more than I work, this really hits close to home and is a sore subject.

 

I guess it depends where you go and what you need. When the check engine light cam eon in my wife's Subaru wagon, my local mechanics said the part was $200 and NAPA, $150 at Subaru.

On the other hand, my daughter took her Nissan to a mechanic in Iowa City who spend two days and two "controllers" not fixing her ignition problems. Finally figured it was a different computer bit which Nissan would sell to him for $800 but would only charge $200 for if the car was in their shop. So this guy tells my daughter to have AAA tow her car to Nissan to have the part installed there since he won't rip her off like that. Then,he only charges her for the one part since he didn't fix her car-no labor!! Think she's kept this mechanic AND told everyone about his business?

Then it turns out at Nissan that the part is part of a Nissan recall and the part and labor are under warranty and free. My daughter has very good luck.

 

Unfortuneatly, other Large manufacturers will twist Ford's good news and genuine effort to disprove the 'america builds crap' theory.

Ford is often shot down for the smallest thing which gets twisted around by the competitions "Spin Doctors". Yes, corporate America employs spin doctors souly for the fight to out sell the others.

Why not build a better product or put your best foot forward (like Ford tries to do) Instead of spreading rumours from every angle when someone else shows improvement and success.

------------------------

A regular maintenance oil change/filter/lube at mopar (up here in Canada)
on your new car every 5000 km is currently $69

GM charges $99 for the same oil service.

I took the wifeys new car for it's 35,000 km oil service and inspection and the total was 39.95.

What's wrong with this picture? I got the more expensive semi-synthetic oil with a long life filter and the standard 100 point inspection, and no hidden charges or 'surprise' fixes/fees..


Her 06 Focus has garnered award after award after award from All corners of the globe. Edmonds wrote that this was a "must have" car, not a good car, not an average car. The car has continually taken top honours/awards in Europe since introduction. I think it's a great car and the japs can't compete for that price.



Who's keeping the costs realistic here?

JMHO

 

I hate car dealers. Every time I leave a car dealership I feel like I need to take a shower. The slimy bastards are always, always, always trying to run a con game on you. You can't get a straight answer, a straight deal, or a straight repair. Bastards and con men with not an ounce of integrity under the roof.

The guys who build the cars do a good job. They build quality products and these days it really is hard to find a lemon. But it's a damn shame that lying thieves are in charge of the customers.....

 

WOuld this include the Saturn Relay my wife just bought

 

Just a little...

 

You know I dont think all japanese cars are better but both Toyota and Honda make damn reliable cars and I know this first hand. My daily driver is a 99 civic si that I bought with 22,000 miles on it, I just turned 100,000 miles and have never had one problem with it. Sure I did the preventative maintenance like timing belt and water pump, but it is still rolling on it's orignal brake pads. It runs absolutley perfect and silent and still averages 35 mpg and I drive like an asshole. My wife's brand new Saturn Relay on the other hand has been in already for a stalling issue (6000 miles) and to have the rotors and pads replaced due to warpage (9000 miles)

That being said I will never buy another new car for myself, I'm done with that fucking bottomless pit.

 

I like old stuff. When my "beater" stalled at a light, I restarted it, only to have it stall when I released the key from crank. I knew right where to look. Waited till the light turned green, rolled around the corner into a parking lot with the key to crank & popped the hood. I figured it was a blown ballast resistor & I could bypass it to get home. I was wrong. I was just a loose wire at the ballast. I had it fixed quicker than I could have dialed somebodies toll free "Roadside Assistance" number. No scan tool, no diagnosis fee, no blown $250 powertrain control module or $400 dollar ignition cylinder or whatever.
Try that with your $30k+ computer controlled, step on the brake to get it in gear, do up your seatbelt, automatic door lock, loaded to the nuts with useless junk, new piece of crap.

 

The latest quality figures from Ford et al were for initial quality, not down the road quality: time will tell on that score.
Meanwhile, I will continue driving my W123 chassis Mercs. Daimler-Benz still backs them quite comprehensively on parts (try getting door seals for your 1984 domestic ANYTHING at the dealer's), prices on parts for this car have NOT been out of line, and, for everything I have purchased, the quality is better than any aftermarket item. This is true of every manufacturer, BTW.
However, three things about this particular D-B product stand out:
One, D-B is the ONLY automotive manufacturer that buys back fatal wrecks (current D-B models) and dissects them to discover the reason that the person was killed in the wreck.
Not the most popular job in the factory, BTW .
Volvo USED to dissect wrecks, but after the Ford/GM buyout, it was evidently decided that they could coast on the historical reputation...

Second: Most of these cars have over 200,000 miles on them, many (mine included) have over 300,000 miles and run fine, most on the original, untouched, engine (diesels, true). Some have gone over 1,000,000 miles, though most of those have had one engine replacement. I have yet to see ANY other car with over 300,000 miles, much less a number of cars with over that, still running fine. Some Toyotas have achieved over 200,000, but most (all??) will succumb before 300,000. Meaning I can keep this car without worry for a long, long time.

Third: After 300,000 miles (documented, in my case), my 300CD is STILL tighter than a new Chevy. Doors still close without rattles (silently, even, just a thunk), the car stills goes straight down the highway and feels tight. No noises from anything, though admittedly sone parts have been replaced. Wood and dash are still crack-free, and most power accesories still function fine (cruise and A/C are the sole exceptions).

Yes, the car cost a LOT of money in 1984 - $36,303, but was that excessive considering the car still looks fantastic and still runs extremely well??

I had a 1983 Cadillac Seville, it was dead by 1993 and 110,000 miles.

Father bought a 1984 Dodge Aries (seen one lately?? I haven't). Dead by 60,000 miles.

Sadly, D-B has lost a LOT of quality points, and the 'S' Class has notoriously unreliable electrics; another company coasting on it's previous, enviable, record of reliabilty.

As to those of you buying American, if you are not buying new, you are kidding yourself. All you are doing when buying used is putting money towards the salesman's next plaid jacket, which is probably NOT made in the USA.
If you ARE buying new, you are losing your kid's college tuition on depreciation.
But, your neighbors are impressed.
Seriously, look at the UK in the seventies - all the rampant patriotism couldn't save the domestic producers, as crap is crap. And the average Joe who puts down all he can afford on a new car wants a car that will last without excessive repairs, and that car is now produced by largely Japanese names, Toyota and Honda topping the list. Joe has no use for patriotism if it takes money away from other necessities.

Cosmo

 

that is an exact truth. according to the Economic Policy Institue, the average worker in 1965 was making 1/24th of what his CEO was, nowadays the CEO is making 262 times what the average salary is. furthermore its back on the upswing from a small low, but the all time high in 2000-2001 was 300 times that what the average worker makes. now imagine, if you made...

60,000/year X 262= 15,720,000/year.

likewise, how much more productive and how better a quality product would your company have been if the 262 was reflected as a number of employees instead of one individual?

what if you just took the almost 16 mil and spent it on developing an exceptional new technologies to meet future fuel and emissions standards, now...not in the future when youre forced to settle for a lesser product and get your brains beat in by foreigners who are smarter? i.e. the 1970's.

what if you just spilt the numbers into pairs and did something to employ more people in a community instead of farming out work to overseas companies? and maybe also give back to the local community a hospital, library, community trusts to pay for the local infrastructure, low cost housing for the workers in your plant?

none of these things seem to be the objectives of ANY CEO or corporate type these days. they are all in it for themselves and that means future woes for the American working class. Time was when captains of industry were leaders now they are all scam artists.

numbers from:
http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_snapshots_20060621

 

Well I got a few things to say as the head mechanic in a local small town chevy dealership..... If I work on your car.....and you decide not to fix it.....I GET PAYED!!!!! I don't have a set pay I am commision. Meaning I get payed by the job whatever book time is.. And the reason they quoted you a price on a new trans is because being a dealer it is the best option... if we were to patch it together , we would end up living with that car forever when something else in it tears up. If you wanted a cheap rebuild you shoulda taken to a rebuild shop not a dealer....You woulda played hell gettin your car out the lot without paying.... Anyways as with anybody...missdiagnosis happens....and customers are quoted the wrong part etc...BUT if I was to replace to head gaskets on that 96 impala only to find that didn;t fix it...the shop would EAT that and you woulda only payed the price to fix the sensor... I HATE how people make dealership mechanics out to be crooks....some are but I take pride in the fact that I'm not!!!! sorry i got a little pissed lol.

 

Yeah well If I wanted a transmission that stands up, I sure as hell wouldn't go to GM. Their transmissions are notorious for failing at which point the customer pays $3500 because GM designed the $65 modulator to break at 70,000 K and it's more profitable to put in a $3500 trasnmission than to put in a $65 modulator. Besides, the customer pays, nudge nudge wink wink.

I'm not fooled by the way that GM treats it's customers. Come ON, 800 bucks for a tiny pigtail light/wireing harness that is designed so weak and cheap that the smallest dent in the fender -or a stray rock will break it off and there is absolutly no chance that the backyard or small independent mechanic is going to fix it??.

Why the hell would GM want an independant machanic to be able to fix the 300,000 pigtails that will get broken in 2007? 300,000 pigtails that GM will sell for just shy of $800 each.

It's the lack of morals that impresses me the most about GM.
And the fact that they are devious enough to have built a loyal customer base while charging you or your insurance company $800 for a light socket that is designed to be impossible to repair and you can't buy it anywhere else but thru GM for an outrageous amount of money.

There has to be a better word than 'outrageous' when it comes to people being forced to pay $800 for 3 cents worth of material.

Stupendous doesn't even seem to come close enough.

How about just fucking stupid thieves.


Hey Do I smell Coffee?



?

 

I have saved my shop so much money over the yars on truck parts Maintenance..Hi-lo repairs etc..If i can fix it ..make it or have it fabricated..I do..because the parts replacement market cost has just gone friggen crazy..in a way i feel bad for the parts makers in america..as little and as few of them are left///the reason is this..friggen Ford..Gm..and Chrysler have screwed those poor bastards to the walls..Making PROFT a four letter word..and telling the vendor ,what they will sell them the part for..so most of those makers have to go for their money in replacement parts..its a sad world out there guys and it aint gettin any better..

 

oh yeah remember Gm stong armed that vendor for that 800 dollar part into selling it to them for .10cents..when it took 50 cents to make it that poor bastard is in debt 40 cents each time one of those leave his shop and Gm is rakin up the cash..and still cryin poor pockets

 

Did the Answer rhyme with "Go Chuck Purcell"???

 

Can we say that this is a definitive case of resting on past laurels?? The TH400 and TH350 were such reliable transmissions that it was nearly unheard of for them to fail in normal, and sometimes abnormal use. Even after 100,000 miles, given that they would have had fluid, they usually work fine. And you or I can rebuild these for under $200.00 in most cases. If they even need a rebuild. Even the first Hydra-Matics were fairly good, especially given the era (early automatics).
And now, this. Starting with the TH700R4, the TH250, the Metric 200, and right through to today, the auto trans that GM put out are crap. But folks remember the older 400's and 350's that NEVER failed, and put that faith into their trans they just bought. What will the next generation of car buyers remember?? It won't be the bulletproof TH400, I guarantee that.
Cosmo

 

We have a couple of those 700R4s, one has 285K on it, it's fine. I beat the crap out of my own, a lot less miles, but I once towed up a steep hill with a car trailer with about 4500-5000 lbs on it, I had my foot right to the floor not sure I was even going to make it all the way. Still going strong.

What it seems like to me is the late 90s and newer cars the quality is spotty. We've had good Fords as well as GMs, but my sister has this 99 Sable with like 65,000 miles on it and the trans lurches now and then pulling away from a stop.. like it's slipping or something. A good shop, not a dealer, couldn't get it to do that for them, so it's going to get driven until it breaks I guess.

My Suburban is computer/TBI but it's pretty simple, so are the older S10s, I'd drive those and just get a cheap one and run it into the ground and get another before I'd get a new car. I'll spend the real bread on a nice old car first.

 

I agree Cosmo. Manufacturers today make crap 'cuz its accepted as the norm! I was repairing a fan the other day and went to my neighbors to blow out the motor. (dont ask what happened to my compressor!) When I told him what I was doing he said "No one repairs fans!! You go buy another for 10 bucks!"
Why is that accepted?
I remember a toaster my folks had for like...... 25 yrs! 25 FRIGGIN' YEARS! Ive been married for 11 yrs., and we've had like 5 toasters! They dont last 2 yrs! Vacuum cleaners? 3.
We've gotta stop throwing shit away..............

 

My second hand 1983 S-10 had 300K on the ticker when I got it in 1995, put another 60k on it and sold it for the same $500. Lifters clacked, burned oil, but doors still shut correct, suspension in good shape and origianl auto tranny was running fine. S-10's are a derivative of the 78-87 G body GM's- and properly maintained last a very long time for a third of the money.

 

Yeah, some cars pop a trouble code when you disconnect the battery. A friend of mine had a radio that required a code to turn on, after a battery disconnect. They wouldn't give it to him over the phone. He had to take it to the dealer and $40 later his radio works. Also have a buddy that failed emissions because he disconnected the battery and trouble light came on. Here they fail you if you have ANY trouble code/light. Now they have the ability to check codes ready. I have been told that some of the brand new cars go through a certain number of starts, or time, till they arm the codes after a battery disconnect. This is so you can't reset the code and pull around the corner to the emissions station. If you do the computer tells the code reader that the codes are not ready and they fail you on the emissions test, even if you don't have an active code.
New cars are rapidly becoming expensive, electronic distraction ridden, pieces of shit that cost a fortune to fix.
And people ask me why I drive old cars?

 

There's a refrigerator in the basement here older than my dad. It works, but has a little oil leak so we haven't used it in a while. Considering it's a 1940 model I don't think that's too bad.

But heck I do the same thing, I just replaced my grinder and they wanted to sell me a 2-year warranty for $10. I said, the thing only costs $20 and the last one I got at least three years out of... then again, if I bought one for $75 or $100, I'd expect it to last 10 years, too.

 

Toyota & Ford Race

(new twist at the end)

A Modern Parable
A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River . Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens and a certificate of completion for the rower. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower (a reduction in workforce) for poor performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and cancelled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year's racing team was "out-sourced" to India .

Sadly, the End.

However, sad, but oh so true! Here's something else to think about:
Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages. Toyota has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US .

The last quarter's results:

Toyota makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses. Ford folks are still scratching their heads.

 

Hey NAPA Online has a '99 Intrepid battery cable for $12

http://www.napaonline.com/masterpag...r=781133&Description=Battery+Cable+-+Positive

Is that the same one in question?

 

Well, the trans went last Friday. See post 23 this thread.

F-me.

 

Car Parts? Auto Zone, Pep Boys, O'Reilly....
It comes down to mostly a post about cheap shit made in China we don't have much of a choice about, thanks to the "free Trade Agreement" With China.
I have never bought one thing made in China that didn't break within two jobs, or lasted very long. The most recent was a year old leather punch I used once, who's sprocket that held the punches disintegrated as I took it off the hook on the wall, and the 12" "C - Clamp " that snapped in half when I hand tightened it. Made In China! Check out Wall- Mart. (Owner from Arkansas). The only thing made in the USA is the American flag hanging on the wall where ya come in... "Of all the"... Bet THAT was made in china too.
Tex

 

American/Mexican/German/China made?

I ain´t give a darn. New cars are all crap when the waranty is over and it comes to repair and buying parts.

I just can´t afford to drive new cars.

The 95 Pontiac Transport was our daily driver.

Total cost:

7000 to buy the car
600 tax a year
1200 insurance

takes about 14 mpg

fixing (that means change out today) that engine management blackbox 1200

tax goes up every year because of new emission standards

Now we have a 1959 Opel Record as a daily

Total cost:

4500 to buy the car
250 tax
80 insurance

33 mpg

waterpump 70 installed it myself in half an hour.

No need for any emission/enviroment pain in the a...


Frank

 

Seriously?!?! This post completely misses the 100,000+ blue-collar workers being paid in AMERICA and paying income taxes to the US government, not to mention their local and state governments in the form of payroll taxes. Not only are these payroll taxes taxed at a much higher rate than any corporate tax, but there's more income being taxed in the first damn place just from pure numbers. Also, your average blue-collar worker spends his ENTIRE paycheck in our economy, drivng local businesses who also pay taxes on their earnings. And that worker pays sales tax on every last thing he buys that isn't rent or food. They also pay property tax, vehicle registration fees, and everything else. I know your average CEO is taxed at a higher rate than your average worker, but in the end the roads get built because of Americans having jobs, paying taxes, and spending their money within our economy. The CEOs don't give two shits about America, or they wouldn't be closing plants and moving operations overseas constantly. Your argument is amazing in its ignorance and simplicity...