413 MOPAR advice please

Before anybody jumps in my dookie here, know that I have searched my ass off and can't find a word about this anywhere.

Okay you MOPAR guy's, I just pulled a 413 out of a huge 1972 Winnibego. I am being told that I should put a set of 440 heads, manifold, push rods etc... on it because the 413 head has small valves and runners and so on. I probably have enough parts to accomplish this but frankly, I hate to tear down a perfectly good engine for no reason. I figure if this mill will haul something the size of a small house up a mountain than it aught to sling a '34 Plymouth coupe pretty well, esp. with the rpm limitations of street driving. I do have a stuck 440 in a '77 or '78 Imp. that I could rob the parts off of but again is there that much to gain?

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

If it runs good the way it is, use it the way it is. Odds are it's configured to make a lot of torque to move that Windbag around, so you aught to be able to stick a tall gear in the car and fry tires all day long. You can always run it until it needs a teardown.

Thing with a 413 is overbore pistons are expensive. So what you could do is run it and build the 440 in the meantime. If you're going to end up spending money to build a motor, that's where I'd put the money first.

That Imperial, if it's solid, is a prime demo derby car, even without a motor you could sell it in a hurry.

 

I agree with Rusty. The '72 413 probably has all the same parts as a '72 440 anyhow. If you want to know for sure go to www.moparts.com

 

Yeah, the parts interchange. Run the 413 while building the 440. It will swap right out! Bet you have one HUGE, ugly water pump on that 413!! I've seen plenty of those things....man, what a design!!

The Moparts.com site has a Q&A board that will give you WAY too much info!!

Dave

 

440s are the most common in a performance application, so the parts are more plentiful and usually a little cheaper. 413 is the same basic motor as far as water pumps, starters, intakes, etc, but are sort of an oddball for internal parts.

I would just run the 413 the way it is and build the 440 on the side like everyone else is saying. B/RB mopars are not cheap to build, but the performance you reap from them makes them worth the money. Too bad it wasn't a 'pre 68 motor where you'd have the 3.00" thrust bearing and forged rods and crank. The later motors have a 3.25" thrust but are cast. Still good for 500 hp though.

Honestly, try to stay away from Mopar Performance parts as there are much better parts available from other companies usually for much less money. Kick ass motors regardless, and your 34 will be a running machine with one of these on board

 

As already stated, I'd try it as is. You can always change it later if it doesn't suit you. I've seen some wedge-engined early rods. These engines looks very nice dressed out. I don't think you'll be lacking for torque either.

 

Some of those motor home heads had an extra water jacket around the exaust ports, plus are very restrictive, plus I think the exhaust manifold may be a slightly different patteren. Swap on a set of stock of 452 castings (same as 904's just with hardened seats) not much $ or work involved. even a set of lo-po 383 heads would be a performance improvement.

 

Since no one else brought it up, the "'77 or '78" 440 has a CAST crank and will not simply swap into the 413, which has a forged crank. Externally they are the same, both being RB engines. Check Moparts.com or another site to get the specifics.
Good idea though, run the 413 as it is for now. Coincidentaly, I'm looking at a 28-foot motorhome on a '67 Dodge chassis [w 413] for $2500. Owner says everything works.

 

You may want to try this website, Brandon has been real helpful with stuff for ALL sizes of Mopar big blocks. Also he has some good tech stuff on his site:
http://www.440source.com/
Luck!

 

Post a picture of it.

There are two very different styles of heads that could be on it - passenger car type and industrial type. Passenger car type are OK, but the industrial/truck type require a different water pump and exhaust manifolds as well as weigh ALOT more. The industrial type also will have smaller ports & valves - the exhaust valves will probably be sodium filled and have rotators... Industrials also use water instead of exhaust in the manifold heat crossover.

If you can't post a picture, just look at the bolts holding the exhaust manifolds to the heads. Passenger car type have all of the bolts in a straight line, where the industrial have the bolts staggered.

 

I have seen forged steel cranks used up until late 73'.....Check your balancer

 

Thanks for all the help guy's. HAMB guys are the best and one thing I've noticed from lurking all these years is that MOPAR HAMBer's are the best of the best, sticking together and all that. I'll take some pics as soon as I can get back down to the garage. I'm trying to get ready to leave for Louisville so it might take me a while to get the pics and figure out how to post them. I'm pretty sure I'll try and run it as is. With the exception of that water pump HemiDave mentioned it's huge, roughly the size of a SBC, and as such should make a great boat ancher lol. My dad was the MOPAR man, I'm just now learning about them so all the help is much appreciated.

 

Even if it has the Motorhome-heads with the odd-ball exhaustboltpattern, just keep those and buy a set of headers for them at SummitRacing for around $135,-

These headers go fairly wide after exiting the engine and it wouldn't surprise me if they might be a nice fit for a fairly narrow hotrod.

 

413's are good motors with lots of torque. If you decide to rebuild, you can bore them out 60over to 426ci and then have a bunch of piston options from the 426 max/street wedge motors. Check out moparts.com - and search for 413 - theres a guy that has a combination to punch it out to 472(?) using common mopar parts and 383 pistons.

 

Boring a 413 to a 426ci pistonsize will require a .0625" overbore.
How far do you really want to push your luck with cylinderwall thickness, and also, why waste a perfectly good engine-block in the process by bringing it to it's last lifecycle?
Kanter has pistons for these engine I believe, and one could always have a set custom made.

A 'torqy' 413 in a hotrod should be able to lay rubber in the first 2 gears with ease. Maybe 3 if you have some gears in the rear.

 

As has been stated, the motor home heads have a water passage above the exhaust port. This keeps from frying the valve cover gasket. There are many different combo's for the rb wedge. Pick what your pocket book can handle. Just remember one thing, Mopar fans are extremely loyal. They aren't always factual in there opinions. See if you can't round up a copy of the old Direct Connection yellow book. It will tell you what parts to buy and what to expect performance wise. Good luck.

 

since you have the stuck 440 id pull the heads and all of the front accesories. have the 452 heads decked and rebuilt while off. if its from an rv it probably has low miles so if you really wanted you could just hone it rering. either way, it will be a torque monster in a little coupe.

 

boring a mopar rb block 0625 is no problem. we/ I bored a 65 413 to 4.32,same as a 440,no problem,also bored a 72 440 090 and used ford 460 pistons(long ago) and my buddie used 400 blocks bored to 4,5" in his prostreet race car,but those were ofcourse filled with hardblock.but on a 1200 hp nitrous engine,one old 400 block held up the whole racing season.
for the best mopar bb info in the world,go here: www.bigblockdart.com

 

I'd just dump it into a coupe body and drive it like you stole it. Sure would be interesting to hear comments from the cruise night "experts" on what motor was in that hot rod....Its a big block Mopar in a light body, that would be huge fun, and take a beating all day long. Wouldn't have any overheating problems either.

Yep, I'd throw it in a coupe. Gene

 

I just installed one of those MH 413s in a `64 dodge polara... I had to change those big heads and water pump housing, and water pump.

It has a steel crank... small steel harmonic balancer... and NO timing chain... It`s gear drive!!!

I`d bet your`s is the same.

I don`t think anyone makes tube headers to fit those odd ball heads... they use 3 bolts in the center..

I`m planning on bringing my Polara to the hamb drags... It will be the HAMBCHARGER II.

I had the original HAMBCHARGER there last year, and had a ball!!!

Good luck!!

 

Info on big block Mopar blocks...good read.

http://www.440source.com/blockinfo.htm

Dave

 

Look again at the pic I posted on the previous page. The top-header is a Motorhome-header.

 

Awesome thread guys ! I am stuffing a 440 into my 40 chebby truck project.
I bought 76 maxi van from the original owner, he special ordered it with a 440, 727 auto and a dana 60 posi. I gave 1k and it has 70,000 miles.
still looking for a decent intake etc.

as far as the thread goes, I would run the 413 like it is and be happy, a motorhome doner means its gonna be set up torque monster, low rpm's and stump pulling torque

 

Here's the deal if you want to drive your coupe around and have a good time your heads etc are just fine.
If you wanna go racein' then you'll want to upgrade your heads and intake. What they did was use a low performance head on the 413 that went into motor homes. Its along the same lines as GMs tall deck 427 that they put in trucks. It wasn't intended to rev just pull.

 

Just Put In Drive The Shit Out Of It !! Then Think If You Want To Do The 440

 

I agree. I have a '75 date coded 440 with a forged crank. It also came out of a motor home. I am going to just hone and rering it, I think it only had 45,000 miles on it.

I have an Edelbrock Performer intake for it and I'll use a 750 Edelbrock carb on it. I'm going to keep the cam and low compression pistons in there for now. That should make a fairly decent Interstate cruiser with 2.73 gears. Of course, I'm building a custom, not a hot rod.

 

These guys are all right. Run that motor and take care of it until it smokes. All your mounts are the same, so you can build your 440 at a pace your wallet can handle and then swap it.

Dressed to the 9s

 

Man I didn't expect such great response. I got down there to look at it for a few minutes today, (without my camera like a dope). Does have the staggered exhaust bolt patters. Also found that the exhaust manifold is cracked all the way around right after the first bend on #7. Too bad cause I like the way the manifolds are made close to the block. They look like cast iron block huggers and would have been good to save a little cash if I plan to run the original heads.

 

That is pretty typical of truck/motorhome exhaust manifolds.

Interested in a set of segmented manifolds that exit straight backwards (or forwards if you switch them side-side)? When I say segmented, I mean HEAVY-DUTY three-piece manifolds like on a 855 Cummins:

 

a good freind a few years ago stumbled on a low mile 64 fury convertible with a 318, low mile car like 30,000 miles...with our buddy who restores and rebuilds MOPARS , they did drop a stock 69 Chrysler 440 4bbl in, cast intake and exhaust manifolds and left the factory 3:23 gears, no rebuild, just rings and bearings and a stock 3 speed pushbutton Torqueflite, and that car FLEW!!!!!!!!!!!! We borrowed it for my sisters' wedding ,and my brother in law to be and I went and terrorized the highways the night before the wedding and that 440 did not miss a beat !

Amazing what a stocker will run...never mind a mild cam, etc....I'd drop her in ad like they mentioned, driv'er mister !

Derek