I am building a 283 sbc for my A and am thinking about building it to run on E85. I work at a ford dealership know that when our flexfuel cars run it they get shitty mileage because it is less efficient than gas in those motors because the octane rating is about 100 to 110 on E85 and they only run 8:1 comp ratio. i will have at least 10:1 and am thinking that it will make the E85 more efficient with more comp. I know that it would also run cooler. I was wondering if i could use a alcohol fuel pump or is there a special E85 pump on the market. I know that i need bigger jets in my carb and diferent gaskets. Just wanted to know your thoughts thanks, Joe
distilling your own fuel or what hahaha just don't drink it. i could be wrong but the higher comp is better with higher oct. because of the higher combustion rate of the fuel not shure on the gaskets but a hotter spark couldn't hurt also not shure on the alco fuel pump don't know i never used e85 but i have been thinking of making my own you know legally of coarse.
my thoughts on E85: let someone else use it...set up your hot rod to run normal gasoline. It's nice to be able to buy gas anywhere.
I've given this some thought too. When E-85 is available everywhere, I'll absolutely convert my Suburban to it. I know it's less fuel effecient that regular gas, even with the CR bumped up. My honest feeling is I'll gladly pay $5 a gallon (as an example...I think that's probably around equivelant after figuring mileage versus gasoline) to: 1) burn cleaner emmisions. I'm no tree hugger, but what the hell...help out where you can. 2) help American farmers. I come from farm stock (bulls...not sheep), and like to do my part to help them. 3) it's renewable, and as they get better at it, I would think it'll get cheaper. 4) it'll help cut our ties to middle east oil. Fuck them. I currenly won't EVER buy gas from Citgo because of where their oil comes from. Those are my thoughts on it...on every-day levels, gasoline is better. In "Big Picture" scenarios, I like E85, and I'll be putting my money where my right-wing mouth is. -Brad
Design your street car for the cheapest gas on the market. Design your poser trailered car for the most expensive fuel on the market. E85 doesn't fit into any of those equations. Farmers can feed the country, or fuel the country, but they can't do both. The feed industry is already suffering, and we'll probably have to eat our dogs before it's all over. Woof!
Actually, farmers can--and will--do both. The actual equation is "farmers can feed the country, fuel the country, or feed the starving people in third-world countries whose dictators won't." As an example, we send a tremendous amount of food to North Korea. Things will level out here--they'll feed our cows, feed our people and grow us gas. Also, one of the offshoots of E85 will eventually be green compost. Rather than the food crop being diverted, the husks and leaves will go in the tank. -Brad
There's a guy here that will convert your car to run it for $750 bucks. Fuel is usually 20 cents lower but I still cant consider converting.
10:1, better bump it up a little more, e85 is 106 octane... I was thinking 11.5:1 or 12:1 for a motor I'm building... most fuel pumps made today should be fine with it, they're made to withstand the ethanol already in your gas today... I wish it was more widely available.. the biggest mistake they are making is using corn to make it... it's not a very efficient use of the crop and you can use almost any other organic matter... hemp and/or sugar cain are better sources... there are a few threads already if you use the search function...
I don't know if the low pressure (carbureted) fuel pumps on the market today can run in E85. If they use Buna N seals or have exposed copper that will come in contact with the fuel you are probably in trouble. I have been been spending a lot of time on some of the ricer and E85 boards talking about E85 compatible fuel pumps. The tuners like the high ontane because it allows them to run higher system pressures etc. The problem with that is you get less fuel flow at the higher pressure and E85 requires about 30% more flow. So a pump that would support 450 HP on gas can now only support 315 HP. I could go on and on but its not relevent to traditional hot rods. Neither is E85 IMHO
Everybody on here can say whatever they want and voice their opinions against running E85, but ya know what.....they arent running it. Thats like virgin giving sex advice..... I'm running my hot rod on E85. 460 ford with 12:1 compression. The motor absolutely loves the E85. It runs very cool, i've actually have a hard time keeping it above 180 degrees without the fan on running a tiny (18" x 22") radiator. Do a search for E85, the debate has raged on here before about this. The only problem i'd see for you is if you wanted to run a traditional style induction (i.e. strombergs, rochesters, etc) as tuning that system could get a little tricky. E85 specific carbs are available now, or have one custom built to suit your engine like I did from AED performance (their online, look them up). Go for it (run lots of compression, you'll actually get the best overall performance with E85 around 13:1 comression!)
Even though my sedan engine is a tad over 10:1 compression, because of the good shaped combustion chambers and great timing control, it gets good gas mileage and great performance on shit gasoline. I'll leave it that way and leave the E85 to someone else. We can't buy it (E85) anywhere around here anyway.
I've never understood why California, which is usually ahead of everyone else in alternative fuel support, doesnt yet carry E85...
Ca must not have enough corn fields? and I think most or all of their gasoline comes from the west coast, while the middle of the country gets it from the gulf coast. Something to do with transporting the alcohol?
Is there an issue in transporting ethanol? I wouldnt think that there would be any more risk in shipping ethanol than there is shipping gasoline
That is awfully odd living in the "Green" State of Kalifornia (that is supposed to lead the nation in tree hugging programs)........and you can't get E85 here. I think you got it Squirrel......no corn around here.
yes , it can't go through a pipeline like gasoline..it has to be hauled , by trucks burning diesel i live 10 miles from am ethanol plant , tankers coming and going all day and night
Hopefully they are using alcohol to fuel the distillation process. How much alcohol does it take to produce 1 gallon of alcohol
Hopefully they are using alcohol to fuel the distillation process. How much alcohol does it take to produce 1 gallon of alcohol? I think it's about 2 to 1, so in about 10 years we'll be buying corn from China because all of our farmland will be eaten up by suburban subdivisions, Wal-Mart mini malls, and windmill fields. E85 is a nice-sounding but completely idiotic solution that doesn't solve the problems it's aimed at. And no, farmers can't feed and fuel us. Who is going to fuel them? In areas where E85 is produced there is already a measurable increase in the cost of ALL foods, not just corn. How much more expensive do you guys think food (and anything else that has to be shipped) will be once the trucking companies start charging every industry MORE to ship because of the high demand places on their resources by the fuel industry? Converting to E85 as our main fuel source is as dumb as pushing your car to work in order to save gas. The effort FAR outweighs the benefits.
So how much crude oil does it take to get a gallon of gas to your car? Think about it, you have to ship it half way across the world, refine it and ship it to your local. It probably takes more energy to refine 1 gallon of gas from crude than it does to purify 1 gallon of ethanol from water. There has been exactly one study, from a very, very biased guy (we could go into his politics if we wanted -- but...), that shows that it takes the equivalent of 2 btu to create 1 btu of ethanol. Others have clearly shown that his study was severely flawed. He used data from the 1960s, 70s, and 80s to get his data on farm use of fertilizers, pesticides, and water, and his data on distillation. The fact is that the farmers have gotten much more efficient and the old distillery numbers were from when very small batches were made for specific purposes. Furthermore his data included the total energy cost to build each ethanol plant, including the energy cost to make each product that was used to make the plants (ie the energy used to make the steel for the steel building), which he never used in the caparison to refining gas! As far as food costs going up right now that is ridicules. In MN the rate of food cost rise is no different today than it was 5 years ago. I pay the same for corn based foods and beef that I did last year. The fact of the matter is that no "food" corn has yet been use for ethanol, only the cheap ass stuff that is used to feed cattle. Another point that must be made is that when the sugar is extracted from the corn, a very high grade protein meal is left over to feed the cows, so there is no need to feed the cows other dead diseased cows thus spreading mad cow disease. As far as the economics goes, right now there is such a huge surplus of feed corn on the market that farmers are getting huge tax subsidies because they can't make enough on their product to make a living. Why is it that if someone came here and said " I am planning on building a kick ass alcohol dragster" you guys would all be saying how cool that is. But a guy says E85 (the same freaking fuel basically) and you bask the guy because he must be some eco-wacko?
Corn based Ethanol isn't the answer. But that doesn't mean E85 can't be. In July the Mascoma Corporation announced that they would be building a plant for mass production Cellulosic Ethanol in Michigan. They are putting it in Michigan to take advantage of the lumber industry and plan to use primarily wood chips. Cellulosic production is still a very new techonology and until a number of plants are up and running it will be tough to judge if it is a positive financial and environmental proposition. If it can break even financially, it would be a great solution. Americans would keep spending money on fuel but we could keep more of it at home and keep more out of the middle east.
I don´t know crap about the production of Ethanol or E 85, but I´m driving my non converted 11 year old daily driver on E 85 for almost 2 years now, and everythings fine. It runs a lot leaner so during the cold season I need to mix some more regular into the E85 to get a richer mixture. Otherwise it´ll hardly start after a cold night. Let´s say it´s E 60 during the wintertime. Filling up is cheaper but gas mileage is slightly worse. Anyway ,after all I save a bit and support our local farmers instead of big oil companys...
All this corn-pone is making me irritated. So, I'm going for a bicycle ride now. Might stop at a store to check to see if the price of corn tortillas doubled again, like it did last year... I think all these new fuel mixes are fine for computer controlled EFI that senses the burn requirements and adjusts the mix, but trying to guess or road test each tank of different gas to determine what jets to run in a 97 is way not my idea of fun
Most if not all distilleries in MN are farmer Co-op owned. Oh, no now I did it co-op are communist things!
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________ did you read my post? go to the Weldon website and check out the D2033-A pump, for carbureted engines. its methanol-ready (more corrosive than ethanol) and could support 1000+ hp easy enough. with the Aeromotive regulator i mentioned, fuel pressure can be regulated down to as little as 2 p.s.i. safely.
i don't know the answer to that, i'm not sure if anyone really does know what it takes to produce it all around the ethanol plant i mentioned are fields of CORN....but i want to know if the diesel fuel required by the farmers tractor to plant the corn , cultivate , harvest , and plow the field after get factored into it?
Although E85 sounds good, the fact is that this is a scam on the American public fueled by corporate greed and greedy politicians. Yes, the arguments FOR alchohol fuels (less emissions, cooler burn, higher octane, etc) have some merit. However, the energy required to produce enough E85 to supply our needs may well outpace what savings this fuel realizes. The price of coal has tripled in the last few years. Oil prices have skyrocketed. Natural gas prices have also seen a huge price increase. These are the fuels that drive our nation's power plants and chemical plants. These will be the fuel sources that supply the power to produce E85 in large quantities. I work in a chemical plant - more specifically, a coal-fired power house inside that chemical plant... I see this everyday. I see my coworkers sent out the gate on a regular basis as a result of financial pressures chiefly fuels by increasing energy costs and foriegn competition. In addition, trading off our food supply for fuel is not a wise option. Simple supply and demand economics will eventually take over. The fact we're not seeing it yet does not mean it won't happen. Consider the end user products that are affected by the farmer when he substitues other crop acreage for the more in-demand corns... those crops will now demand a higher market price because of less supply. Meat product prices will increase because they will be competing for the same corn that feeds the animals. The argument about E85 being a "green" fuel has a counterpart as well. If, and I say if, one were to use alchohol to make alchohol (as stated above), it would be akin to using an electric motor to generate electricity... the net would be a loss. If we use fossil fuel fired power to produce E85, the increased emissions and utilization of limited resourses also net a loss. The increased price of food will continue to raise the threat of hunger in 3rd world countries. And finally, by increasing the acreage required to produce corn, sugar cane, etc. to make E85 may give farmers in S. America incentives to carve fields out of tropical rain forests that help cool the planet and stave off global warming (Rolling Stone, 8/9/2007, p48-53). Sorry boys and girls... this isn't the answer. It may be a piece of the puzzle but in and of itself, E85 may cause more grief in the long run than it solves. 30Abone, if you want to build your 283 to run E85, I see no harm except you may find yourself parked somewhere looking for fuel someday...
That is a good question. Sorry for the way I sounded above. One of the problems in discussing David Pimentel's work is that the "peer" reviewed journal that he published in doesn't show up on most library bookshelves. But the fact of the matter is that Pimentel did use estimates of all of the fuel used to cultivate, harvest, and plow. Like I said (and probably was not too clear) was that Pimentel even used such factors as the energy cost to build the materials to build the refineries, and that is not fair. No one has ever added the energy cost to pump, ship and build oil refineries into the energy cost of gas. Think about it this way, if it cost 2 times as much energy, wouldn't the cost of ethanol be expected to be 2 times higher than gas. It isn't, its about the same, including all of the costs of building new facilities (remember that no new refineries have been built for the last billion years I also don't believe that ethanol is a long term solution, but I just don't like the absolute refusal to use it as a temporary solution. Especially realizing that it is the fuel of choice for most major auto sports. Its a great solution for making high compression engines work. Thanks for the civil question rather than just ragging on me.
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