DMV came knocking on the door...good old days over ?

Notice to all you Texans out there, we just got this one too.

I was at the DMV last week and asked about gettting a title only for an Alfa I have that does not run and is in bad shape. I asked how much the taxes would be for the car, which came from Pennsylvania, and she told me I had to pay tax on the market value on the car not on what I paid for it (I paid $1500 for it about 4 years ago, restored it's worth about $35,000). I asked her how they determine the market value of a non running project and she said that they use a book with the average values of cars that had been registered (ie: restored and fully functional) in the past.

Paying tax on $35,000 for something worth $1500 is a big boning with no grease IMHO

 

No it doesn't BUT you likely will like even less buying new rims every couple weeks when they get bent by all the pot holes. Unfortunatly upkeep of the roads is a very expensive proposistion. I'm not going to argue whether states could do it cheaper or what have you, just noting that you are benefiting at least from this tax.

 

My problem with the Boyds of the world is that they're getting a 1932 title on a car with NO 1932 parts. It could be a great copy, but it's still just a copy, and that's wrong. Call it a reconstruction, a replica, new construction, or anything else that's appropriate, but don't bullshit anyone that it's a 32 Ford. Shame on Boyd, and shame on Cal. DMV.

They figured this out long ago when Italian companies started making replicas of black powder firearms. An Italian replica 1851 Navy is a REPLICA, not an origional 1851 Navy Colt. Other industries as well.

We've always delt with things like a frame being used in one car and the body going to build another. That's why there are rules stating that the title goes with the frame in most states.

Most states really only want 3 things. 1) TAXES, 2) Stolen Vehicle protection, 3) Record of vehicles.

Actually, for the most part, all they really care about is collecting taxes and fees. That's why here in Idaho my 1928 frame with the 31 coupe body and 69 Torino engine on it is titled as a 1928 and if I'd used a reproduction frame it would be titled as a new construction or replica even with an origional 31 body. With the new construction or replica you bring in recipts for every part on the car or you accept the inspector's estimation of the value of those parts. You have to draw the line somewhere I guess. With the title on that frame, I showed the signed title and the bill of sale and I paid the transfir fee, taxes based on the bill of sale, and registration fee and I was done.

A Model A frame here would bring around 100 bucks. A Model A frame with a title brings in over a grand. It's a damned site easier to transfir a title rather than going thru that whole inspection and verification process on a new construction or replica.

 

Works that way here unless you get a notorized bill of sale with the purchase price. If I walk in and say I want to title a such and such, they will go off book value.

If I walk in with a valid bill of sale for the same car for $900, they will accept that figure.

 

Yea, it was that way here but according to the DMV lady everyone was faking the price on the bills of sale (OK, that part is certainly true) and they won't accept them anymore. Book value or no title.

 

That is what I was getting at in my early post. The car could be fiberglass or steel but it's a 2007 Boyd Creation, not a 1932 Ford.

Being that is the case, I can understand different requirements for it to be on the road than for the guy with a real 32 Ford.

Of course this does get into grey areas. You find a wrecked 32 FOrd and replace the damaged parts with new. Is this still a 32 Ford. Of course it is. In no way IMO should the things Boyd (and others) build be considered a 32 Ford. I don't care how much they paid for the title. I can understand the state deciding they are building new cars and as such they should fall under different regulations than vintage automobiles.

 

Subtle, but funny as hell!

 

So who writes the book? Who determines the condition of your car to be compared against the conditions appraised in the book? I would contest the assigned value given by DMV of a vehicle if it was out of line and I would attack their methods of assigning value and what they use to determine value (the "book"). Does the book have valueation of the car in the condition similar to yours? Last time I looked through my Fathers Old Cars price guide it didn't cover much below a complete decent running car.

And I'd do this in court. Perhaps a State licenesed or certified appriaser (sp?) needs to be involved. Not a perfect solution but workable.

 

I must comment on the "Boyd issue" He and the others like him can all eat the corn from my excrement! I think its way uncool to buy a title for a new car just because it is a replica of an old one. I think its even less cool to pay ridiculous prices for a custom replica and then call yourself a Hot-rodder, even less cool still to build extremely pricey replicas (or pay someone else to do it, Boyd) and then put your name on it along with your tacky cnc machined wheels and then sell it at astounding prices. Its NOT an old car, so you do NOT get the benefits allowed to old cars!
My Uncles and my Father were greaser kids in the 50's. Uncle Gene built a 50' merc with a junyard olds j2 motor and then raced it on the streets. He had to fix the wrecked merc first and installed the engine using a strong nearby tree branch. Was hot rodding not invented by outlaw kids from the wrong side of the tracks that had to be resourceful and inventive to make their cars fast and/or cool? The guy who buys a Boyd vehicle should not be allowed to stand next to my Uncle Jack who built all his cars from the ground up even fabricating his own intakes and headers on his 48 dodge sedan, reworked the frame on his 48' convertable then powered it with a 331 hemi. My point is: if your hands ain't dirty your not a hot rodder and if your car isn't old then its new.

 

This reminds me of the story about old the guy selling the axe George Washington used to chop down the cherry tree.

"The handle has been replaced three times and the head twice but it's the same axe."

I guess I'm lucky to live where the bureaucrats are just as hostile, but less greedy.

 

The sad part of all this is that its only a matter of time before other states begin doing the same as N.C. All the glass "cookie cutters" titled as 32's is BS in the first place. They should be titled as the year they were completed. Just wait until state DMV's really get smart and start charging the tax on the amount you have the car insured for. If you think we've got trouble now just wait until that happens.

 

The good old Commonwealth of KenSUCKy makes you pay taxes on parts also. Had to pay 3 bucks on my 26 and it hasn't seen the road in about 60 years.

 

so whats the solution if your building a period car
my a truck has current reg in montana, and title
but my 32 project isnt
any ideas?

 

Obviously you've never driven on Michigan roads , Actually a portion of our gas tax is suppose to go to road maintenance, they told us "let the tourists pay for part of road maintenance". Only a tiny portion of the sales tax on automobiles goes to roads, a huge portion goes to the "General Fund". There is a big push in some states to implement "Transparency Laws" that would make the information on "Tax revenue dispersement" easier for the general public to review,... It is a matter of public record now, but just about unreadable,... It's interesting to see all the way the State Tax Revenue is spent, and what portion goes where.

Anyway we are getting way off topic on this thread, I still believe we should all introduce our legislators to the SEMA Legislation. (IMHO)

 

Okay guys I see that this post is turning into a 'glass vs. steel debate and that was not my intent when I posted this topic.

What concerns me about this whole DMV deal is, say for example, my Ace of Spades modified roadster, which uses a steel T body, could come under scrutiny.

The car has a narrowed body which is the only thing Model T on the car, the chassis is fabbed, as is the full belly pan and hood, it has a '37 V8 60 etc. etc. and the list goes on. Is someone going to show up one day and say it's not a legit car and want to "classify" it as a "kit car" ?

And what about the next poor slob in this state that builds a Henry made '29 roadster body on '32 rails etc. and faces the same potential fate? Should that be legislated into "Kit Car Pergatory" along with a Street Beast?

 

Do you have it insured? If so what is the insured value? That's another way people are screwing it up. Tell DMV it's only worth 3k then insure it for 30k. Nc makes it fairly easy to contest the book value, you just have to do it BEFORE the taxes are due.

I've seen that done quite often from both sides of the deal. I asked for a bill of sale on a car once and the seller asked if we could right down that I paid him way less for it.

I went through it a while back and merely took pics of the car and an Old Car Price Guide. Showed the lady at the Dept. of Revenue the condition the car was in and the value they put on it. She changed it in the computer for me right then.

 

I would agree with you, but the states make it much too difficult.

When you go down to the state and ask them for a 2007 title for a kit car, they stare at you like you're from mars.

If you give them a 1932 title, they process you, and tell you to have a nice day.

I'm for the easy way. I don't give a shit if you don't like it. There's no shame when I can be driving, while someone like you is still trying to get the state to give you a title if you can figure out all the voodoo, just because you're a purist.

I think SEMA should develop a proceedure that all states can follow, to easily title kit cars. I don't think anyone really gives a shit on their kit cars what year the title is, we just want to drive it with no hassles.

 

In Vermont ,they use the Old Cars Price Guide.

 

Interesting discussion.

I will point out (an FYI) for some of the AZ crowd.. When a ADOT MVD officer comes to your door you probably are talking to an officer that has ALL of the authority of a police officer. Many of the AZ MVD officers are AZPOST certified with peace officer status.

IF you have any doubt, ask to see their state issued ID indicating that they are a LEO. They are required by law to show it to you. It pisses some of them off, but they are required to show the ID.

 

ya but if they do all that thats when you head down to city hall and make a huge stink and go to the city council and bitch up a whirlwind of "this is bull shit" and never let down. local and state and also federal goverment is getting away with to much bullshit if you just sit back and take their crap there will walk all over you and all of us .