Is an Automatic really superior ?

A B&M Hydro Stick isn't traditional? A 'glide isn't traditional? They had that before they had the small block Chevy, although I can't say for sure when people started racing them.

The long and the short of it is the automatic shifts faster than you can at the expense of fun and a few horsepower. Those pro-stock and other drag cars that run manuals, have a trans where you don't clutch it, and you just pull each lever to change gears.

 

I leaned to drive on a 3 speed column shift (1941 Willys) my wife learned to drive on an auto (BW35 Ford Cortina) I finally taught her to drive a stick in 1982 (Toyota Corona) and every daily driver we've had since has been a manual gearbox, neither of us will touch an auto! (Except my Triumph, I simply couldn't find a manual one)

The good thing about owning manuals is our kids all learned to drive autos, so they HAVE TO have their own cars as they can't drive ours!

(And there's nothing quite like a good windy bit of country road, a well modified car and a 4 or 5 speed stick shift)

Cheers, Glen.

 

Get some tires first. Than some more motor. Than worry about the trans. and trailer.

 

Tires are on the way.I have hit a wall with the motor pretty much.The main reason i trailered to mokan is because i knew what i was gunna be doing to it when i got there .If it were just another show ,i would have drove it, i cant afford to be stuck in another state for a few days trying to fix whatever i broke so i can get back home ,when i should be back at work. Have you ever seen me trailer a car to the roundup or anywhere else for that matter? I did drive it from the Ramada to the strip.Besides three of us went and i am the runt at 205 lbs ,probably be kinda cramped in the Falcon.Thanks for your advise Danny, especially the trailer part...

 

I dont "have to let up" ,i chose to because i dont have a rev limiter or another motor waiting on an engine stand .I dont let off anyway i just dont keep it pegged while the clutch is in for a micro second.

 

Well put.

 

Long ago automatics were junk and manual trannys were the only things that would hold up.

Today it is almost completely turned around.

The old automatics were designed to be liked by grannys and mild mannered suits who hated hot rods. An automatic that didn't need repair and adjustment for slipping bands after a few hard runs was rare.
A little at a time they got tougher- at a price that was higher than a common, used, but still rugged stickshift trans.

Stickshifts were everywhere, and a tough automatic was not common at all.

Stickshifts stayed mostly the same for many years, with some actually getting "downsized".

Automatics kept getting better and better over the years.

I am talking about regular parts for regular people on regular budgets, not the uncommon multi thousand$$ trick trannys for spoiled rich kids.

For many years the very first thing I would do was throw away the automatic and spend days of work putting in clutch linkages, flywheels, shift linkage, shifter etc.

Years later the sticks got very high priced, and harder to get. Other people with automatics didn't break as much as they used to and there came a day when they weren't spending as much as we were.

If you are going to shift the stick very fast as the guys here seem to recommend, you WILL be replacing syncro blocker rings, cogs, and gears quite regularly. Years later when we eventually got to replacing crashed gears more often than the automatic guys were replacing their trannys, you bet we switched to autos.

As long as I can get a core th400 or 700r4 for $30-$90 and a rebuild kit for less than a couple hundred more (sometimes it only needs $50 in seals, a steel sprag, etc) and build a tranny that can be terribly abused for several years without complaint, it doesn't make sense for me to spend several hundred$$ or maybe a couple grand more for a $tickshift that needs new $$$ gears regularly when I bangshift it too much. Shift it slow and you get passed. Shift it fast many times and you WILL replace gears.

Eventually we were replacing worn, crunched gears more often than the automatic guys were fixing theirs. That's when it made good sense to switch over.

I would love to return to a 4-speed stick with a 3,500 lb Zoom clutch, and a fast Hurst shifter like I used for many years, just for the fun of driving it, but my Mastercard got tired...

 

I know you wernt talking about my shifts .By the way what were you running at the drags ,an auto or stick? I saw from your profile your 41 Ford runs a big block with an auto trans (guess you " couldn't cut it with a stick " either ).

 

Back when I ran at the drags I was able to power shift (not lifting) with the rpm jumping only 200. Is that fast enough for you? How is your shifting? Yes I run an auto now. My cpe isn't considered a drag car but even if it was it would be an auto for all the reasons others have posted above

 

Autos are better for drag racing generally - until you get to the uber fast classes where a Lenco is pretty much the only trans that will take the punishment, has a plethora of available ratios to tun it to your engines powerband, and clutchless operating.

For anyone going slower than 8's however, a good automatic is the way to go for drag racing, easier on parts, and generally cheaper. Lets look at a ten second car.

I am building one right now that will be behind a 500hp big block. It has 4 pinion planetaries throughout, a 5 clutch drum, bolt in sprag, alto red clutches, kolene steels, Alto Red solid bands, billet apply pistons, extra heavy duty strut, and a standard forward pattern auto/manual valve body with low band apply.

Total price for completely rebuilding the trans to last forever - ~$1000


I am sending my converter out to be gone through by the manufacturer, so its only going to cost me around $200 for the converter (4000 stall) 9.5", but expect to pay around $700-1000 for a good custom built race coverter from a good company. You can probally get by with a $300 one from B&M but you will not be nearly as quick.

So for around $1700, you can have a bulletproof streetable automatic transmission. Don't need a transbrake, but it would help and up the cost about another $500 for a good Griner brake and mods needed.

For a good stick setup for my car:

833 Mopar 4 speed trans - ~$1200 all rebuilt for a 23 spline A-body trans with good synchros, hemi input shaft and an iron case (trans is about $300-400 and getting it rebuilt with a hemi input shaft is about $800 where I am)
SFI approved Scatter shield - $400
Good clutch setup - single 11" disk- $350
Steel SFI Flywheel - $200

So - about $2100 for the four speed.

I am building the 727 myself so it will be quite a bit cheaper for me.

 

If I were to get serious I'd run a glide with a brake. But I was raised on 4 speeds, not having one would be against family tradition. Powershifting takes practice and a rev-limiter but you just don't see many do it anymore. To hell with the auto, Keep the stick...!

 

I guess my Ranchero isnt considered a drag car either since i drive it to work everyday and just came back from the beer store in it ,but i still run a 4 spd.,and i am not afraid to race it...

 

The "traditional" arguement has been beaten like it owes us money. Not to mention your post doesn't even make an attempt at the question at hand. Get a clue

BTW, what transmissions are your caddies running?[/quote]


Oh I like this guy! you go man get um!

 

For flat out speed and E-T A 4 OR 5 Speed will win hands down!!!! NHRA Gives a 200# Weight break for auto's in comp. classes. In super and stock classes the stick cars are faster...Now for bracket racing give me a hydro or a gilde.

 

Well I guess you want to keep beating this too death. My car isn't a drag car. But I did run at Mokan and I drove it there as well as home. Second trip down to Springfield this year. Put 8000 mi on it in 4 weeks last year, went to Ca. then down to Fl. before coming back to Mi, How about you? Do you drive it any distance or trailer it? If I remember correctly it was trailered, Why? Just went and looked at some of what you posted for the drags. You ran 14.93 and I ran 15.11 and weigh a 1000 lbs more and drove it 1600 mi roundtrip. Done, last post as you're not listening anyway and the horse is dead.

 

I ran a 14.49 on street tires with 3:55 gears and a mostly stock 302 with a 600 carb to your 454 running 15.11 ,if you dont believe me i can mail you the time slip.I guess with you at the wheel it would have run mid 10's right ? Now im done. Is there a point to all this?

 

Honestly, the initial question of whether an automatic is "superior" to a manual is about as subjective as to whether blondes are superior to brunettes (I personally go for the blondes, though I don't discriminate). Each has their strong suit, the manual definitely having the fun factor, not to mention fuel milage and less parasitic power loss. But the autos of course have their strong suits and it all depends on what you're trying to accomplish with your vehicle. Autos seem to the choice for towing as well.

When I'm tearing gears in my Mustang, I love the manual. When I've been sitting in shore traffic on the Garden State Parkway for 3 hours, I'd consider trading a testicle for an automatic. Rods are great with 3 pedals, but I don't think a kustom really needs a manual. Especially if you want to keep the column shift, which I think looks real clean in a kustom.

Me personally. I run a 727 in my 57 Ford. 2200 stall converter, no kickdown, TCI pro kit with the manual/auto valve body. Sends more fluid pressure to the 2nd gear, so it gets that nice "chirp". It's been a very streetable trans and I've logged many miles and many 1/4 mile passes with it. I feel for a kustom it offers the comfort of an auto and the option of manual shifting when I so desire.

It's a totally subjective question, with no right or wrong answer

 

Thanks man ,finally the kind of feedback i was wanting .An unbiased opinion without an attitude.I dont know why some people are so touchy on this subject .This is suppose to be fun not politics .Thanks again...

 

Automatics are superior if your knees are taking their 63rd trip around the sun. Don't ask me how I know.

 

I said I wouldn't post again but. Your right on your time I made a mistake when I typed that, CRS kicked in. Sorry for slowing you down

 

No problem ,you sound like a good guy.I wish i would have meet up with you at the drags, you remind me of my late father.You and i are alot alike.No hard feelings...

 

sticks are fun to drive it a choice only the guy that drives the car can make automatic for the race car stick for a fun car that you race too

 

Fuckin AMEN Jack!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is a good chance my dad (who set his NHRA record with a 4spd) will be there with us next year, he will laugh his ass off at the wimpy shifting. Like I told Greezy (before he launched in 3rd) , I wanna see you lookin like yer tearing that Muncie outta the floor!!!!!!!!!

 

I wasnt ragging you about the trailer. I know you drive your cars, but to go fast and be consistant you will be using slicks, spool, 4 something gears, etc. Thats where the trailer comes in. Its hard to have a fast street car. NOS comes to mind. But we cant use that.

 

Dude, do you even have an old car? Maybe you should bring it to the track and show us how it's done, instead of sitting in the stands with your Dad.

 

Oh Oh this means popcorn time! You're on Trent

 

Yeah, that was pretty harsh. But I've known Tman on here for a long time and I know he can take it. I also know that he's got the '54, and prolly a couple others I can't think of right now. The point is the same. It's pretty easy for ya'll to point fingers about the shifting out there when your in the stands, or driving an automatic.

This is a fun event where 90% of us bring our street cars to the track for one of the few times a year. They aren't dedicated race cars and aren't treated like it. For the very same reasons you said you don't have a stick, or thrash it at the track. Many of the stickcars don't have rev limiters. I'm sure you've checked, but Muncie's aren't cheap any more.

I know you say you were Captain McSpeedshifter back in the 60's and that's great. Only 200 rpm between shifts is pretty quick. But it's kinda like me telling you I could dunk a basketball in 5th grade, only I can't do it anymore. It's just a good story. Maybe true, but how are we to know?

By the second half of the day, I wasn't lifting or clutching. So this isn't about me being defensive. It's about me trying to keep people coming to the track for the HAMB Drags and our Day of the Drag Races and running their cars. I guarantee the you, or Tman's Dad, weren't so great the first couple of times down the track. But you went, and it got in your blood, and you had fun. So you went again, got faster, drove better, and had more fun. Then you got good at racing and Tman's Dad set a record. But what would have happened if you first or second time out was video'd for the world to see. And judged by guys that say you suck. Ya'll might have been back to say "screw youse guys". But you might have been less inclined to go back. And I want everybody to get on the track and have fun with their cars. Whether they are 9 second Tijuana Taxi's or 20 sec. plus flathead shoeboxes. It's all about spreading the gospel.

 

My words exactly!

 

Thats what it is all about, having fun, If we were all being serious full feldge racers then we would all be considered slow. these type drags wer set up for waht I believe to have fun, tear through some gears, grudge race, etc. Not to tear everything up because you shifter the fastest or you have a auto or a stick. That is why I like these type drags, For one thing I cant afford to run NHRA type class specs etc. I love watching all your friends have fun, and getting to race each other. Thanks Buzzard, maybe that will end the saga

 

Dirty and Buzzard, You're right about the fun aspect no question about it. But the original question was which was superior for time and it doesn't matter how quick you can shift that stick an auto w/shift kit does it quicker. Buzzard, I probably couldn't shift that quick anymore and I didn't mean to imply that I could.