Finally working on my flathead again... I have the adjustable lifter wrenches but my lifters drop so far down in the bore that the top of the adjuster is even with the top of the bore. Is this just the way it goes or is this unusual? The flatheads I've seen in person appeared to have the lifter riding higher in the bore than mine and I didn't really notice that mine looked different untill now. I thought when I got the wrenches it would all become clear... Now I wonder if when I had the lifters radiused, they went a little too far? So, is there any way to adjust flathead lifters without raising and lowering the lifter in the bore to get at the adjuster? Measure>Lift>Adjust>Lower>Repeat? MLALR?
it can vary depending on your grind, valve seat depth etc. some times turning the engine to set the valves is the only option and it usually worse on one side due to valve angle in the block. it would be easier on you to drill the lifter boss with a 1/8 bit to use a punch to hold the lifter and throw the ****py johnson wrench away.
There you go, the old MLALR routine. You check the gap and then turn the cam to where the wrench will reach, adjust, then turn back and check again. Not the greatest system but it works. When you have the motor apart, grind the top area of the lifter bore down some so that a wrench will fit when the lifter is down in the hole. Also drill a hole in the lifter bore from the valley area so that you can stick a punch in to hold the lifter from turning. Neal
My grind is pretty extreme but I didn't think it was that nuts. It wasn't into the core of the cam on the heel or anything like that. My bores are drilled but I don't think they were drilled low enough in the bore for my lifters... Which doesn't make any sense because they were the lifters that came in the block... When I try to put the alen wrench in through the hole and into the slot in the lifter, it holds the lifter off the cam. My adjusters are also super tight and I felt like I was going to break the wrench off before I got it to turn. The adjustable lifter wrenches from Speedway seem to hold it fine though.
I adjusted the lifters some before I put them in the motor. I knew that I would have to turn them out some and it is easier to get them to move if you do it before they are installed. Once broke loose, they are easier to adjust. Sounds like you already have them in the motor so I guess I am not of much help other than, Ya, they are tough to get them adjusted when in the motor. I do not have holes drilled in mine and I got them adjusted so it is possible. Neal
Just curious. You say you had the lifters radiused? Are you saying they are convex on the bottom or do you mean radiused like the lifters that were used with the Iskendarian 404-A cam? What cam are you using and what is the lift and duration? Again, just curious.
A possible shoulda-done: Before ***embly, while breaking loose the screws, turn one exactly one turn and measure the resulting change in length, which would of course be the pitch of the screw as well. With this, you can make a close estimate of the result of the adjusting you do with lifter UP and have a good prospect of finding it correct when you rotate cam back down to measure. Do the adjusting with cam gear OFF...now the up and down rotation bit is quicker and easier.
don't remember if this is applicable to the johnson lifter or not, but if there is a lock nut on the adjuster make sure you check the difference in height after you tighten the lock nut. the slop in the threads will make it increase in length.
That's some clear-thinkin' right thar... Unfortunately I got a little carried away when I finally got to putting all this stuff together and didn't think that clearly... It never even crossed my mind that the adjusters might be tight, or that they would sit that far down in the bore. I was just having a blast making peg A fit into slot B that I didn't notice potential issues. Then when I did notice them, I figured I just needed to order the special lifter wrenches and everything would be hunky/dory. No hunky... No dory... Just my old friend trial and error.
FYI, my cam lobes lost .227 on the base circle after the regrind. Trust me, its worth all the effort. They are fun when you finaly get it right.
Who did your re-radius job on the lifters? Could be too much was removed - or they took all of them down to the shortest lifter? This coupled with your cam re-grind probably worked against you... Anyway to weld extensions on the lifter tool so it engages the holes better?? Or make some sort of similar tool? Otherwise, I think your MLALR is the onliest option
The Johnson style lifter wrenches from Speedway engage the holes on the top of the lifter just fine. The problem is the adjuster sits too far down in the bore to get a wrench on it. Even if I made a tool to adjust it without MLALR (MRALR in version 2.0), I'd still have to lift it to get the wrench out then lower it again and remeasure. I can't see any way around it at this point. No big deal really, I just was concerned that something was amiss... As to the lifter thing, I'm not sure what is the actual culprit as far as the lifters sitting so far down. I know that since the lifters came out of that block the holes drilled in the lifter bores were adequate to adjust the valves. And since the cam also came out of that block it should have all lined up in the end too... But I did have the cam reground and the lifters faced sothere is a combo of issues that could add up to the change.
Another thought: Measure gap at bottom of travel...move lifter up to where you can work on it. Put dial indicator on top of valve, adjust by needed amount. Oh, the heads are already on...??? And you can still measure pitch/ one turn amount fairly accurately...just measure a clearance, bring that lifter up and give it as close to one turn as you can, droppit and measure clearance...you now have a number for a turn and hence estimated fractions of a turn, and should be able to adjust raised lifters by that, except in the cases where the blasted johnson wrench pops out of place and you forget where you were while trying to get the bleeding to stop...then the engine has to come back apart because blood rusted all the valvesprings and it gets worse and worser and we eventually get a report that you now hang on the board where they stick Chinese writing onto Honda civics and...
Not gonna happen Bruce... No matter how much blood I spill... One of the projects that's been keeping me away from Hot Rods lately was converting a '95 F150 from auto to HD manual... If that didn't turn me HONDA... Nothing will. Good Ideas on the measure-as-you-go front... I'ma try that one out.
Hey Bruce... Measured the lifter clearance on the heal of the cam. Set a dial indicator with a magnetic base up over the valve. Raised the lifter/valve up for access. Noted the reading on the dial. Adjusted the extra clearance out of the lifter by adding the proper ammount on the dial... Worked like a charm... Thanks a lot for the idea. Next question... The specs for this cam grind indicate a "Running Clearance" of .014 intake/.015 Exhaust, and a "Checking Clearance" of .015 "At Cam." Which one do I use? I figure the Checking clearance, because "Running Clearance" would be with the motor warmed up which would be pretty much impossible to check in a flatty. Right?
i would go with the running clearance specs...i think the checking clearance has to do with how they derive the duration specs...
I believe jetmek is correct...the "checking" is for degreeing in and getting advertised results. A thousandth does change duration... Bumped into something interesting while looking for EAB cam specs recently: Ford published duration figures for 3 clearances .001 apart, showing duration changes over the allowable clearance range with a surprising amount of change caused by small clearance change. Just seemed interesting to have something actually suggesting thought and blueprinting turning up in an old shop manual...
Thanks guys, I got the right bank done. That is interesting Bruce. I haven't seen anything beyond simple ***embly info in the manuals.
Bring this back up again. I'm getting ready to pull the cam out of my Merc powered 49 Ford coupe. When I bought the car it had a flat cam. I thought it was the lifters because one would not stay adjusted so I bought a new set of Johnsons and thought that was done. The engine never really ran right and has become much worse. So I'm looking at a Max 1 or 1007b regrind by Pete on a good core I have. I'll be getting some new hollow Johnsons and checking the springs and guides. I just ordered the lash wrench from Speedway but can't find any info on how to use this tool. Does anyone have a pic on how to use this tool on the engine. BTW, the engine was pretty fresh when I got the car and the only changes I've made are Mallory dist. and duel Stromburgs on an Offy intake. Thanks Steve
As far as the tool, I take it is one that has tangs that fit into one lifter and reaches over to the neck of next one. to hold the one being adjusted. They can be a pain to use, we always drill holes in the lifter bores, to drop an Allen wrench through the window of the lifter, to hold it while adjusting it. Pete is a very good choice, been doing it for around 70 years.
Yep, drilling the bores makes life so simple it should be illegal. Gotta do it while the engine is apart, though. Just think of the days when grinding the ends of the valve stems was the only way to set the clearance. That should make you glad you even have adjustable lifters.
I'm not taking this engine apart so drilling on the lifter bores is out for me. And thanks for the info on this tool. It now makes sense on the use, greatly appreciated.
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