help please. transmission splines wont slide into clutch!

okay so me and my dad spend half of yesterday trying to put the transmission back in my 63 ranchero.

we had it rebuilt and we got a new clutch and everything for it. well, when we went to put in the transmission, it wouldnt go in! it got all the way down until the last inch, then it wouldnt go any further.

it went past the throw out bearing, but after that it's just stuck, it wont go past anything else, and there is about an inch gap left over. we dont know what to do. we tried for about 3 and a half hours yesterday and while i was at school he fiddled with it earlier, with no luck.

so does anyone have any ideas on what could be the problem? i dont have any pics, but i found one on some website with a similar problem. except no one really answered his problem lol

so ya keep in mind THIS IS NOT MY TRANSMISSION, just a pic i found of what's basically going on with mine

 

Sounds like you didnt line the clutch disc spline up with the pilot bushing before you tightened the pressure plate bolts. Best way to do it is to use an old input shaft. Slide the clutch plate onto the old input shaft then stick the input shaft into the pilot bushing to hold it in place. Then bolt the pressure plate up to the flywheel. If you dont have an old input shaft or cant borrow one there is a universal tool made just for this. If you dont want to pull it back apart then loosen the pressure plate bolts up to where the clutch plate is loose then wiggle the ****** around until it goes into the pilot bushing, bolt the ****** to the bell housing then tighten up the pressure plate bolts.

 

Sounds like a possible crank bushing issue.? Did you replace? Make sure it is correct size for trans input shaft? Occ***ionally, depressing the clutch slightly can help get the trans in all the way....

 

Probably the clutch plate has slipped down a bit, and the pilot shaft on the end of the ****** input shaft is not lining up with the pilot bearing in the rear of the crankshaft. Most ****** shops have a "dummy shaft" which is simply an extra ****** shaft without the ****** attached to it. They get things lined up with the dummy shaft, then install the ******. Its been a long time since I installed a manual transmission, but unless things have changed a lot in 40 years---put the ****** in place and use 4 extra long bolts to attach it to the bell housing---these longer bolts must be threaded into the bell housing about 4 or 5 turns, but not be pulling the ****** into place (thats why the bolts are extra long). Put a jack under the tailstock of the ****** to take any "load" off it (from the weight of the ******). Have someone SLOWLY push the clutch in---this will take the weight of the pressure plate off the clutch disc, so that the clutch disc can move a little bit, so that the pilot shaft on the ****** can line up with the pilot bearing in the rear of the crankshaft. Pray a little bit (or curse a little bit, either seems to work) and wiggle the ****** a bit, while pushing it towards the motor, and have a stong friend lift up the tailstock and wiggle it a bit. the ****** should slide right into plac. Then remove one bolt at a time and replace them with the correct shorter bolts.---Brian

 

They sell cheap clutch alignment tools that look like this. That's what you need. Everything has to be concentric so that the shaft can go through everything and line up straight. If you don't use a tool like this, things wind up staggered.

 

we've been using that alignment tool, we have two of them even, and used both. so ya as for this reply from brian, my dad said its a possibiltiy this would work, but its also a possibil***y it'd make it worse, making the clutch disc fall out of place? but he said he'll fiddle with it some more tomorrow while im at school

 

Definite alignment issues with the clutch plate and pilot bearing. Doubole check the ID of the pilot bearing against the OD of the tip of the input shaft. Just keep at it, it'll go.

I do what brainagus said almost every time, but I work on heavy duty trucks. I also do it from below with a pry bar on the arm for the fork so I can keep an eye on whats going on through the inspection window. Big truck throwout bearings are a little different, but mainly the same concept.

 

sometimes it helps to put the trans in gear and turn the output shaft a bit.

Also it wouldn't hurt to see if the clutch disk actually fits the input splines on the transmission, since it's a ford you never know if they used a different spline on different models that year....nothing personal against Fords, it's just that I've worked on a few!

 

Hopefully you still have the old clutch. Take it of the flywheel and lay them next to each other for a clearence check. Sometimes the Luk brand can be a bit different (taller) so I would figure anybody elses could be off too. Same goes with the flywheel...make sure you are dealing with tolerances O.E. style. Most likely you had this resurfaced. And like everyone is telling you check the pilot bushing (in your crank) if it looks banged up by now most likely its the wrong size. If you can get it out (easier said than done without damage) slide it over the input shaft of ****** for fit, (hate to say it but you should have done this first thing). Also use that graphite grease stuff (small package) and really coat the tip of that shaft, This really helps with tight fits. Not sure how you got two alignment tools...? You should only have one that works...hopefully its a black plastic one with a number on it..make sure it matches the number of splines in your clutch! Getting this lined up isn't as easy as you might think...take your time and make sure its centered before tightening it down!
Good Luck!

 

Also, IF you think splinage and bushing are OK, make sure car is safely blocked up and chocked, then get an extra person to step on the clutch while wiggling transmission. This sometimes allows installation in the event of slight misalignment. I believe your clutch linkage is of a design that allows full ***embly without trans in place.

 

my dad liked this idea, he hadnt thought about that and thinks this might help out a little bit. if not he's gonna take everything apart again. before we put the ****** back on there though he checked to make sure if everything would fit, and it did. so i think everything is the right size and what not, we're just not getting lucky. hopefully some of your guy's advice will help out. much appreciated guys thanks

 

At this point, you've spent waaaaay more time trying to make it fit than if you'd have pulled the trans back out and checked to see if the clutch is the right one (tho I suspect it is, because it should be past the splines if it's only the last inch that won't go in). Also, you haven't said if you've replaced the input bushing/bearing in the end of the crank.
If you have, then this is probably your problem. There is a front and back to a bronze bushing--the side that goes toward the trans will have a slight taper or bevel on the I.D. so the tip of the input shaft can slide in. If you installed it backwards, you'll have to be EXACTLY spot-on to get the input shaft to slide into the end of the bushing. Which, obviously, isn't working.

If you've replaced it with a roller bearing/bushing, then one of the needles has probably slipped out and is hanging up the input shaft. If that's the case, by hammering and pushing and moving, you've very probably damaged the needle, so you'll need to replace the roller bearing.
That's why I prefer simple old bronze input shaft bushings.

-Brad

 

I had this same problem when I replaced my T-5 in the Mustang. The old one came out slick as snot, but the new one wouldn't go in at all. I pulled the whole rig out, lined it up on the floor and it went together no problem. Put it back in the car, wouldn't go in at all. Got it to within a 1/4" then nothing. So I called some friends up (who work in new car development at the place that "sired" my Mustang ) and they said if everything is lined up, and it's that close that I could "run it in" with the trans bolts. I did, real real slow like, in a criss cross, equal at all times, and it's been fine since (a couple thousand miles this summer). BTW, it was a stock flywheel, FRPP clutch/pressure plate, and a D&D T5.

I'm not nessasarily condoning it, but it did work for me.

And, IDK what your pilot bearing looked like, but mine was pretty foolproof on how to put it in, as it had that HUGE shoulder on the outside end... but if it's a straight through one I can't help ya.


Jay

 

I had a similar problem putting the three speed ****** back in my 54 Chevy. I worked on it for a couple of hours before I realized if I put a jack toward the rear of the motor and jacked it up about a half an inch, than everything lined up much better and it went right in with a few taps of a rubber mallet.

 

If you have a pilot bearing thats a needle bearing, make sure one or more of the needles hasn't fallen out,and blocked your path,Also check the input shaft on the ****** and make sure the splines have a clean cut all the way to the end.I've seen the splines get hammered in and make it a ******* to get the input shaft in the clutch.

 

If you decide to try this, be very careful! I have a muncie case missing two mounting ears, most likely because someone tried this trick and turned the bolts a bit too much.

 

If you use the method I suggested, and you have the ****** to within 1" of where it belongs, them the front shaft has already p***ed thru the clutch disc---it can't fall out of place.---Brian

 

popped the t5 in and out of my mustang dozens of times . it is def not reccomeended to use the ****** bolts to pull this trans in as the aluminum case breaks easy. i forget the thread size but take a bolt down to the hardware store match up the thread and get 2 bolts 5 or 6 inches long cut off the head and grind the end down . now thread these into the bellhousing on top lift the trans up and align the 2 bolts and slide it in using the bolts as guides once it is almost in if you still cant get it you might need to gently step on the clutch and wiggle the trans a little bit

 

Actually, a variation on this is to go to a well-equipped auto parts store and get a couple of studs, and permanently install them in the top two bolt holes to use as alignment dowels. Then, instead of backing them out like you'd have to do with a bolt that you cut the head off of, just put lock washers and nuts on them, and use them to secure the trans to the bellhousing in place of the bolt.
-Brad

 

Also make sure the clutch disc is facing the right way, if the nose of the disc sticks out too far it will do the same thing. Good luck and stay after it you'll get it.

Tim

 

If you think the problem is only a slight misalignment; pull the coil wire and bump the starter while pushing. Used to work for me. Worth a try.

 

i showed my dad all these replies and he tried them out yesterday, none seemed to work. Im gonna help him out saturday when we go over to our grandma's where its setting.

but ya i think the only thing we can do is take it out, and try it all over again... i'd hate to have to do that, but who knows. any more suggestions other than the ones you all have given me? thanks for the help

 

Only thing left is to pullitapart and check fit of splines, pilot, and think it all through.

 

Ik. This is old but youve been recently active i saw. I was wondering if you ever found out what yhe problem was.im having the same problem on my vw tdi and they don't have a pilot bearing. But im having the same exact problem. Others have tried yo figure out what it may be. My next solution is to measure both old and new clutch for re***urance that they are the exact same size. But i was jist wondering you might have solved this.?

 

Sorry, I can't help you. I looked at the earlier advice I have given on this issue, and my answers still stand.---Brian

 

This was 2007, did he get the trans in yet?

 

When using the clutch alignment tool, use some white out to mark the top. Then use the mark to match to the splines on the input shaft. Also, it's very difficult to do without a transmission jack, as it needs to be exactly straight. Also, better to tighten the clutch plate with a torque wrench as the release springs may warp / be uneven otherwise.

 

I sure hope so....that's a long time ago.