There was some discussion a while back regarding alcohol distillation for personal use. The Federal government allows it for fuel and requires that you denature it PROVIDED that you have the proper permit. Home distillation for beverage purposes is not allowed. The reason is taxation. The government collects about $2.50 in alcohol tax on a 750 ML bottle of 80 proof liquor. They collect something like .40 on a bottle of wine and a nickel on a can of beer. That lower taxation rate was the reason home brewers were able to get congress to change the law back in 1978 to allow home brewing. Follow this link for more: http://www.ttb.gov/industrial/alcohol_fuel.shtml
Benzine, on the same taxation kind of note, at a Nascar race a few months ago the Gov'n checked fuel in spectator motor homes. They were looking for untaxed home heating oil. They found one guy that had converted his motor home to French Fry oil, and fined him several thousand dollars because he hadn't paid road use tax. So much for American independance on foreign oil. Thanks for the link.
Forget it. You're not going to make alcohol any cheaper than industry. Buy a 55 gallon drum of E85, and call it 15% denatured. Distilling fuel takes a lot of energy. If you have a geothermal lava pit in your back yard, you could edge the market. Lacking that, wood, propane and natural gas are very expensive to get the heat necessary for distillation. Even if you succeed, you have to take steps to not lose proof, as once the batch sucks moisture out of the air, the proof will drop fast, and then your engine will be in the limp mode. Not a problem with modern E85 cars with a closed fuel system.
Here ya go Max: http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/06/a_price_to_pay_for_altern.html http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1849048/posts
When my Dad retired from farming he built an alcohol fuel plant in the pole barn. He had it running and converted his riding lawnmower to run on straight alcohol. I have to dismantle it next year to clean up the old farmstead. If anybody is interested in it let me know.
I am in contact with a guy that builds a conversion kit for German deisel engines (he has sold several hundred). Those things run great on fryer oil! P.M. me for info.
If your gonna do something like this....fair warning.....don't let your project get too public. We had a guy in Cedar Rapids whipping up his own bio-diesel to use in a VW Rabbit. The local tv channel got wind, did a human interest story on him/it, and wouldn't you know it? Two weeks later the tax boys in DSM got an "anonymous" phone call concerning his failure to pay road use taxes on the stuff that he made from fryer oil and benzine. He figured his "fair share" of road use taxes would have been about 4-5 bucks a year, and the tax boys tried to claim they could actually do the paperwork for that small amount.........right! The oil industry does NOT want you to be independent from them. Roger
Do you worry about cutting the tags off mattresses too? Dudes who distill alcohol don't care about big gov's rules. I got an article to run a stock model a on fuel oil from the 30's. It's old news.
************************************************ Nope, but since you asked, I posted this as fair warning. Those sumbitches in your state capital WILL cut you off at the knees, given half a chance, and not really for your money. It's to send a message to the rest of the populace. Roger
This is some good info, it make sense why they are checking exhaust with lasers,infrared and cameras in LA, they might be checking for all the veg oil users in LA to charge them the road taxes.
If you drive on the public roads you have to pay your fair share of tax. I have NO sympathy for people caught running homebrew biodiesel fuel in a street vehicle. Every single penny of of fuel I pump at the gas station includes tax used for the roads. Not paying that tax is the same as stealing from your fellow citizens. Because my share of tax is supporting someone elses no paying ass. I have no problem paying my share of the tax through fuel purchase tax. It's the fairest tax. The more you drive, the more you pay. The thirstier you car/truck, the more you pay. I shouldn't be expected to subsidizing your access to decent roads because you don't want to pay your share of the tax to upkeep the roads. This kind of behavior is gonna lead to a road use tax (in addition to the pump tax cause the Gov't never gives up revenue) added to your yearly taxes. Every time your car goes in for inspection they can say "I see you drove 25,000 miles since the last inspection. The tax is $0.02/mile so you owe the State $500 before you can leave with your vehicle."
Yes. Different issue, but yes. Some sort of tax should be charged for bicycles even if it's just a small yearly registration fee. Assign a unique number to the bike, just like a vin #, put a plate on it. All bikes get registered when the primary user turns, or is, 18 or older. 1.) Makes bicyclists pay their share for road use. 2.) Helps deter bike theft. Many bicycles cost over $1000 now. Making that theft a felony. 3.) Provides opertunity to set and enforce rules for safety of drivers and bicyclists.
I think it was the first Dover race, I don't follow that crap anymore. But my buddy that does says it was in the official Nascar newspaper, whatever the name is. I think his fine was around $3000.
Don't know about anyone else, but I didn't take your comment as being smartassed. It is pretty rediculous when the Gov. SAYS they want you to conserve, but when people do they punish them.PA. is trying to pass legislature that would eliminate the gas tax, we pay I think third highest in the country. What they want to replace it with is a MILEAGE based tax. So if you buy a 40MPG Toyota and drive 10000 miles a year to work, you would pay 10 times more then a 4MPG car that drove 1000 miles, even though you used the same amount of gas.
agree, and is legal correct and makes sense - unfortunately.... unfortunately somebody has to pay to have things like roads, armies, etc. that is waht taxes are for and road taxes actually are a pretty fair taxes as far as it goes. alt. fuel people who aren't paying taxes are freeriding and living on false economies. I converted my truck to run on propane and I could have done it 2 ways, the cheap easy way with a forklift tank and been able to use non-road propane which is cheaper because it doesn't have the road tax added or the harder more expensive way with a permanently mounted frame tank which does get filled different with the taxes added and not nearly as many locations to get it from either. Same propane, but different filling options and taxes. I opted for the "correct" version because I do drive it on the roads and am happy to help pay for them just like everyone else. I don't expect a free ride from the goverment.
Come on now, the government makes more off the sale of a gallon of gas than the oil companies do! Between that and the average 40% tax burden we pay, how is it that someone is "stealing" if they brew their own gas? Especially since gas taxes go towards funding more than just the roads. Sounds like it's the government that's stealing from us.
I would not argue that we overpay to the Gov't. I feel we do But here's how you are stealing from me if you brew your own gas and don't pay taxes. I'll use numbers that are exaggerated to simplify the math. Interstate X a 100 mile long interstate costs $900 per mile, per year to maintain. We both drive cars that get 20 mpg and we both drive 20,000 miles per year. Gas is $3.00 per gallon. 20 percent of which is tax for the maintenance of the Interstate X. Over that year we both need 1000 gallons of fuel. At $3.00/gal, thats $3000 in fuel. The road tax collected on that is $3000 x 20 percent = $600 or $6 per mile. I buy my fuel all legal like and pay my $600 share. You make your own 1000 gallons of fuel and pay $0 road tax. We both drive that interstate. But the Govt cant maintain it based on the tax collected. Now lets take a moment and remember that the Govt does not earn one single dollar. It collects it from the tax payers. The Govt says Hey, we cant pay for Interstate X at the current tax rate. We have to raise the tax rate to 30 percent." So this year I use my $3000 dollars of fuel at 30 percent = $900 dollars. You again make your own 1000 gals of fuel. We both continue to drive that same road. Explain to me how you are not stealing money from my pocket by making your own fuel and not paying your share of road taxes. I get charged extra to subsidize your use of the road. The Govt isnt some magic entity that doles out magic cash grown on money trees. Money that you dont pay in road taxes is taken from the other drivers on the road that do follow the rules and pay their share. If you paid your share their would be a surplus of $300 per mile each year and Interstate X could be made longer or maintained better (in a perfect world anyway). If you can't understand this basic fact of life you should never have been let out of High School.
If we pay the government to build roads for us, why are there toll roads? A. Greed B. Embezzlement C. Waste D. Corruption E. All the above
I will restate, before this brawl degenerates into further hair pulling and biting, that I posted this information to provide answers to some questions that were not resolved the last time this subject came up. There wasn't a clear understanding of the legalities of having a still although many colorful anecdotes were offered. What are the legal issues to be aware of when contemplating distillation of alcohol? This information is provided so that individuals can make informed decisions. Ignorance of the law is no defense. This is not about whether you should pay your taxes or if the taxation system is fair. Those are different topics for another thread. I personally don't care what you decide to do. If you distill you will need a permit. If for fuel use you do not pay the liquor tax. Road taxes are another thing entirely. If I understand the information on the website correctly an individual is allowed to manufacture up to a certain amount tax free. Is anyone here actually doing this legally? I'd like to know how it's working out.
You might search the board some, I'm pretty sure I've read right on here just what that amount is. But it sounds like even if you do manage to do it, you're going to have to research your state and federal laws so you can pay the road use taxes. That probably means filling out a form and reporting it every so often. I guess I don't have an issue with paying the road use taxes, I just wish it was actually going to maintain my roads. There's some folks up in Minnesota who probably feel the same way. I'm sure a pretty good O/T discussion could branch off from that alone. I've heard of that PA plan to tax by the mile before. But it has a pretty good 'flaw in the slaw' as Sherriff Roscoe would say... what stops me from living in any town on the PA/any other state border, from buying all my gas in PA, but as an out of state resident, not paying any taxes on it? Same goes for cars and trucks passing through on the way to other states. To top that off, your car odometer would have to be certified or otherwise verified to be accurate and not tampered with, lots of issues there. Because of that, I don't think you'll see it ever pass into law. But what do I know.
If it was as simple as easy as gas tax = road repair (and ONLY road repair!!), then you'd have a point. But sadly, that's not the case. The government uses our gas tax money (with the rest of our taxes) for all sorts of mismanaged and unconstitutional uses, including taking money from our pockets to put into someone else's so the same politicians can get re-elected. Therefore, I don't feel one bit angry if an everyday joe manages to find a loophole by brewing his own go-juice. The government is faultless in it's allocation of tax money to pay for the road system. When they screw up, all they do is say, "umm we need more money" and they levy a new tax. Simply because the government demands more money does not make it morally or ethically right by virtue that they are there for the "public good". Let this go for the years it has and voila! You have people that are spending the first 4-5 months of the year working off their tax burden. And here Ben Franklin said that it was a tyrannical government that taxed it's citizens as much as 20%. By your logic, since my kids are homeschooled I should stop paying all the taxes that go towards public school, or that my tax dollars towards Medicare/Medicaid a should be refunded to me since I do not use it. Unfortunately, that's not how it works. By your logic, it stands to reason that a car that weighs as much as other cars and uses the road as much but uses less gas is also robbing others, since they have found a way to pay less for the same road use. Brew-away as far as I'm concerned. The powers-that-be and our fellow citizens have screwed each other without pause or concern for decades, the relatively small bonus (if any) a home gas-brewer gets is poetic justice IMO. Sorry, you just got me on a subject that makes me want to vent. LOL. I think I'll drool at some hot rods now.
A good resource is here http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/ You must get a permit. It's mentioned by Form number someplace on that website
well i believe tjm73 has a very valid point. and i too think or know our govt' is screwing the shit out of all of us job working stiffs in this country..if they are going to go after the bio-diesel guys and home brew fuel guys ..than they need to go after the fat assed lazy fukers on welfare that can work but make up bullshit excuses to sit on their ass ans collect and suck our wallets dry too. there are alot of problems in this countrys govt' and alot of problems with alternative energy sources and fuels. the oil industry is huge and it is feeding off of us like a ravenous beast. it will not repent and it will not stop. until the last drop of its crude black sludge is pulled from below our feet. the corruption is too big and wide spread and all of the Big shots have their hands in it..corruption at its greatest level.. oh and BTW were really not supposed to talk about politics on here so im done!
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