I just went by my local GM dealer and purchased the last bottle of EOS. For anyone building an engine over the winter you need something in the oil to break in the cam. I always use GM's EOS but they have quit making it. If you go to your local parts house and buy oil you stand a good chance of losing your cam. You need genuine racing motor oil and I'm talking about the 6 and 7 dollar a quart stuff. All the new oil including the desiel oil has had all th metals taken out like zinc because the EPA said that it hurt catylitic converters. So beware our old engines will not survive on this oil. It will eat flat tappet cams. Roy
Roy, I read on another car forum that GM will introduce a new EOS this December. However, I'm sure it won't have the same quan***y of ZDDP (Zinc & Phosphorus) the old stuff had. The federal government has mandated that new car catalic converters be warrantied for 100,000 miles. Car manufacturers couldn't meet the warranty requirement with the older oils so the oil manufacturers lowered the ZDDP in the oil. ZDDP use to be at least +1000 parts per million) but now is in the 400 ppm range. I just finished dynoing a 572 inch Dodge last night (1000 hp @ 7000 rpm) and we used racing oil from Champion Oil, Clinton, Missouri. Several of the sled pullers (533 inch BB Chevy) use Champion oil and have had good results. I personally like Royal Purple synthetic racing oil and will use it in my 321 inch GMC. Anyone wanting more information about oils can do a search on Google and make their own decisions about which oil to use. However, I'd recommend using something other than the normal petroleum based oils since flat tappet cams going flat have become a serious problem. Ron
having that problem myself. need to call them in the morning and see if they have any still. I have always been told not to run synthetic for the first 3k at the least. whats a subs***ute for the EOS if I can't find any? That I can possibly get locally....
Grant, NAPA, O'Reilly's, Auto Zone all should have break-in additives from Comp Cams, Crane, etc. Ron
Most (if not all) have roller cam followers (even the OHC stuff). So if you have a roller cam, you don't have this problem.
I don't believe there has been a flat tappet cam in a production engine for at least 15 years. With a roller cam engine these issues with cams are not there. Also you can run lower viscosity oil in the new engines like 5 wt. and get away with it. The manufacturers are recommending this stuff so you will get better mileage. I always run a little heavier oil because I would rather keep my bearings for 250,000 miles than get another 1 or 2 miles to the gallon. We are a little group of people who like old cars and engines and we are a very small speck on the horizon as far as the auto industry is concerned. All of NHRA and NASCAR are not concerned about flat tappet cams because there are retrofit rollers available for most engines except old inlines. I believe that rollers are available for flatheads. I know a friend of mine built an Ardun engine and it had a roller cam in it. It isn't easy being different. Roy
well, we (me and damnfingers) picked up a bottle each at the local chevy dealer. they acted like they had a room full of it so if anyone needs a bottle or two and its legal to ship UPS i don't mind going to pick some up, just pay shipping and cost.
Rand Man you're right about the crate motors and I am going to run genuine racing oil in any flat tappet engine. I have a 348 Chev engine with a flat lobe sitting in the shop now. It has about 2000 miles on it. I think that we need to really not use Wal-Mart oil or any other oil that does not have the zinc in it. I received a cam for my GMC engine and the cam grinder was really adamant about the break in oil and the oil that you run afterwards. Roy
does autozone and the like have the "racing oil"? I don't mind 30 bucks or so on oil, but I want it to be the best I can get if I am going to. Is something like royal purple a good oil to run?
and if so......what weight would be good for an SBF. I know it's not HA/GR but this is good convo and applies to what I am goign to start driving daily!
I saw a bottle (looked like a 1 Qt. gear lube bottle) in an Autozone in the spring (in Stocton) that was supposedly a Zinc supplement. Orange bottle, wish I could remember who made it.
This is what Iskenderian says, " Brad Penn Penn-Grade, The very best of all in our opinion and the only oil from 100% Pennsylavania crude. Number two is Pennzoil "GTP" Racing oil ( Excellent- don't confuse with regular Pennzoil. Number three, Valvoline Racing oil Excellent don't confuse with regular Valvoline or VR-1. " That's it from old ED. Roy
I use and sell Lucas racing oil. Use 20/50 in the HAGR flattie. Motor looks like new inside. I'll be putting all the old bearings back in for next year. I have very happy customers also running it in alky IMCA modifieds with SBCs and 70 wt in blown fuel motors. Brad Penn is good. Can be hard to get. Lucas has great customer service and will give racer discount and direct ship if you buy big quan***y. Sorry for the comercial but I believe in what I use and sell. Brad
Have any of you guys thought about using motorcycle oil? Most of them still have the additive package that automotive oils use to have.
Brad Penn has a 30wt "Break In Only" oil that is loaded with the heavy metals that we need for the flat tappet lobes to live in these old mills. Sort of like several bottles of EOS pumpin' through the oil p***ages. They also have 10w30, 20w50, Straight 50 and who knows what else. Very bulletproof oil product. And in something that runs methanol or does not get started very often, a blue bottle of STP will let the vital chemicals cling to the internal surfaces. That will keep the moisture at bay. Blown Alcohol boats are the absolute worst and it keeps them alive. Simons Petroleum in OKC keeps a large supply of most weight Brad Penn oils. Call Alvie and tell him what you need. K
I have been sick for a week, so I check this forum about twice a day. We haven't had much activity for a few days. I guess that everyone is down for the winter. I am still gathering parts and waiting on machine work so I guess I need to relax but I'm so fired up about getting the race car running it is hard to relax. I'm building intake manifolds out of cardboard right now. I can do that and not over tax myself while I mend. It is extremely hard to get the manifold I want because I want the right signal at the carb for the rpm I'm going to run. I can see why all the intakes you buy are a compromise. Roy
The "Home Engineering" is what makes all this stuff fun. Keep building, we are gonna have a bunch of these cars.
Check out Ryan's Blog today. He features a thread on the main board (by King Ch***is) cool stuff 'bout old rails.
Rand Man I just went to the thread from King Ch***is and boy did those pictures bring back memories. That GMC powered dragster looked like he could have been right in the thick of things now. Also there were a lot of motorcycles racing in 1954 thru 1956 at the drags. There was a Harley that was called the Beast, it belonged to Chet Herbert and was top eliminator at many an early meet. There were a lot of Triumphs running also. I think about those guys who were going 140 mph on a bike with nothing but a T-shirt and a sorry helmet, scary. Roy
Nope. There were never any GMC powered rails. You Jimmys are trying to re-write history. (I'm joking of course)
I'm not sure, but I remember the Buick was pretty fast in D Gas Dragster in the old days. Ron (348chevy) may remember. I know his memory is better than mine. With todays technology I'm sure the GMC would be faster....depends on the rules and how much money you want to spend. I know Ron and I are building GMC's. Ron
The more I think about it the more I realize there are several factors limiting the Buick: The Buick bore is more than 1/2" smaller (0.5625 if both engines are bored 0.125"). That limits how big the valves can be, which limits airflow....and airflow dictates how much power the engine can make. The Buick stroke is 5/16 longer which kills the high rpm power when the cylinder head is airflow limited. The Buick is heavier. The crankshaft is longer which means it will be more subject to tortional twist and flexing. My GMC is too expensive now, in terms of money and time, and the Buick would require a lot more of both. Ron
The GMC was faster in the 1/4 mile and there were almost no Buick straight eights running in dragsters. There were some Buick straight eights running at the lakes and did pretty good. The GMC was a better choice than the Chev. because the Chev was 235 and could only be bored about .80 over. The GMC could take a .125 and some even went .250 This gave the GMC a good advantage for cubic inches. Chev came out with the 261 in 1958 but by then the overheads were dominating the drags. The drags were running 4 banger cl***es but the flatheads and inlines had to run against new OHV V-8's. The only way the inlines could compete was with Wayne 12 port heads. That's the way it was. Roy
Charles "Cool Chuck" Hamann owned and drove a Buick straight 8 C/R roadster "The Oddball" that was the terror of NHRA Division 5 (west coast area). He was the division 5 points champion 1962 and 1963. He also won the Indy Nationals in this car. Ron
There is a company: BG that sells car additives and sells only to dealers and garages. They sell a product called: MOA. It is loaded with vitamins and minerals for your engine. I own an engine shop and we use it in every engine. Have not lost a camshaft in 25 years. Proper break-in and the right valve springs help also. Use a quality camshaft like ENGLE. You can call me if you can't find it locally. Pro-Formance Spcialties 1115 east Main St. Rochester, NY 14609 585-288-1499 /M-F/8-5 Matt
Matt thanks for that bit of info, I can add that to the list of products to save our old engines. By the way I have a picture of Don Nicholson taken about 1952 before the 409 fame. He has a 1950 Chevrolet 2 door with a 270 Jimmy engine bored out to 292 cu. in and he went 95 mph in the 1/4 and 125mph at the lakes. It had 3 Stromberg 97's on a Howard manifold. HAPPY THANKSGIVING everyone. Roy
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