I just ran my car at the Nostalgia Shootout down here in Bradenton this last weekend. I went down for test/tune on Saturday as they have eliminated the 6cyl and flathead cl*** for this show??? Just a heads up for some of you guys. NHRA does not like this cl*** at all. The tech inspector took more time on my car than any of the rest, trying to find something he did not like. He even made the statement that he did not like teching these cars. He finally let me through after giving me the once over. Next year the cut-off switches have to be push/pull. Push it in to kill the power. He also told me that my fibergl*** seat needs to have a piece of round rod around the whole seat to keep it from coming apart in the event of a crash. I will say one thing though, the front engine dragster guys were all over the car. They really seem to like them. Hopefully this will carry over to other people and we will be able to run these cars at any track regardless of the sanction.
they dont like it because there is no room for common sense in the world of NHRA tech. since these things dont fit into any existing cl*** it would require the tech to make a 'judgement call'. ugh.
I guess that they want the "Push-Pull" switches as a standard because that way they don't have to read the required "On-Off" plate? What's next, on board GPS locator's so they can find the cars in the pits? The way they look at it, the next thing they will do is require all cars and engines in compe***ion to be less than 10 years old and made in Japan. God save us from all of those who are trying to protect us from having fun. Maybe we should come up with a cl*** for pedal cars, but by the time they got through with the requirements, they would be too heavy to pedal. We just need to build enough of the cars to overwhelm them and start up our own sanctioning body. The "Non Professional Vintage Racing ***n". Our motto can be "we race because we love to and we will find a way without dealing with people who haven't got a clue". Lets bring back Real racing on non treated pavement, flag started as it was meant to be. Keep building, we shall over come.
"I guess that they want the "Push-Pull" switches as a standard because that way they don't have to read the required "On-Off" plate?" Illiteracy's no excuse, you merely have to be bright enough to turn it to the position it isn't. And if THAT's your problem, even push-pull isn't going to help you. No sixes or flatties? Did they eliminate ALL sixes, or only inliners? And just which syllable of "nostalgia" do they seem to be having the trouble with? Flatties and sixes aren't nostalgia drag racing? Then what exactly the hell is? {rant} It's Dragsneyland, folks. The public wants a theme park with all the old thunder & smoke, heat & noise, in a neat little ride where no one's in danger of actually chipping a fingernail. But of course, far enough out of town so as not to disturb their viewing of "Ultimate Dirty Jobs" & "You Too Could Be Star Material". And the NHRA's a business, in business to give'em what they're asking for (aka: in business strictly to make money). Promoting ACTUAL historic drag racing is an***hetic to that, their primary endeavour. Even promoting modern drag racing is sublimated to the Dragsneyland image. If the public's invloved at all (in any way, shape or form), this'll either be turned into a pastel shadow of what we're trying to make it or it'll be outlawed. Board track. "Road" racing. Continue the list with any modern example you've known personally. {/rant} I'm beginning to doubt we have the proverbial snowball's chance with No Hot Rods Allowed. They've turned far too green(back) for what we're trying to do. We'll likely have to keep it private in order to keep it at all. I wish to hell I were wrong. I'd actually be happy to admit that one. Sorry, folks ....... I get a bit frustrated from time to time after half a century of the trend.
Safety should always be an issue. I don't really have a dog in this fight as I do not have a HA/GR. But as someone who has participated in a lot of motorsports, two wheel and four, keeping the sport safe and free from headlines like "Drag Racer Killed In Outlaw Race!" is good for everyone. I have pulled dead racers from wrecks, it aint fun. My 2 cents. GV
Has anyone on the left coast, with a HA/GR at N.H.R.A. even been able to make a run down the strip, whether race day or test and tune. And are there any I.H.R.A. dragstrips arround there. Is there a open or independant track.
Don't have a problem with safety, have a problem with requiring that a 12 second, barely over 100 mile per hour car should be required to meet the same tech requirements as a car that runs over 300 miles per hour under 5 seconds. A safe car can still be built with a stick welder and/or welding torch and to require that a cl*** devoted to "garage built" old style rails to meet the current tech and certification process is absurd. As I have previously said in my posts, if that is the way they want the cl*** to be, than we might as well go out and buy new funny car ch***is and have them re-certified every year. Sorry but I don't think that fits into the garage built, low buck, fun approach the HA/GR cars were planned in. When you can run the same times and speeds in a street car with only a helmet and a seat belt, it seems like they are really reaching the point of serious over kill in their approach.
If we had any independent tracks in California we wouldn't be having this discussion. The NHRA even controls the 1/8 mile, street legal only tracks, so we are pretty well screwed until someone gets overcome be common sense.
been there done that it was worth the effort http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=179501&highlight=qqmoon
On the other hand i think its just a people thing. At Goodguys Indianapolis (home of the US Nationals) one of the top tech dudes did all our ha/gr cars and said "nice cars". Its just people not nessasarly the rules. Rules are always a people thing. Just another thought.
Okay, not sure what happened, thought I posted, but don't see it now (so it'll probbaly show up twice the next time I look). I was wondering if these fit the safety rules for IHRA. If I have read the previous posts in this thread correctly, it would seem so.
This was kind of my reason for this post. There was a GTO in front of me in tech, convert, 389 four speed car that ran 13's. Because it was a street car, he did not have to have a roll bar, just seat belts?? I am all for the safety rules and regs, but make sure they apply. I had all the required safety equipment for the speed that I am running and he made a comment about the single hoop roll bar. When I asked him about the GTO, his reply was that it was a street car. As far as the nostalgia part, there was none. There were three cars down there that fit the bill (IMHO) and the Southern Slingshots (who put on a great show), but other than that, it was a normal Saturday drag race. I think the HAMB drags has ruined me for life . I guess that maybe I need to find a non santioned track and start a real nostalgia race similar to the HAMB drags.
I race a front engine dragster with an injected small block and a magneto. It does not self start, we plug a battery into it in the staging lanes to fire then unplug and put the battery back in the tow vehicle. I love to go through tech and have the guys ask me where the batter cut off switch is. I always ask "why do I need a switch when I do not have a battery". Everything on my car p***ed NHRA tech and will continue to do so, no matter what we think of the h***le they have a job to do and guidelines to follow based on keeping racers and spectators safe.
REJ's post sums up the problem. Why is it that a 13 second convertible can run without a roll bar, but it's "unsafe" to do the same times in an HA/GR with a 4 point roll bar, 5 point belts and the other required equipment? This is the problem we are coming up against here in California. Just because the cars are "center steer and have no rear suspension", we are expected to meet the same basic ch***is tech as a AA/FA? If thats the case we can add rear suspension and offset the drivers seat. My plans are to build and race in the 13 second range if we can get our 218 flathead 6 to get us there that quick. I plan on building a safe race car, after all, it is my **** that's going to be in the seat, but the idea of meeting the ch***is standards they are asking for takes the economy out of the car. If we have to meet that kind of standards here at the NHRA sanctioned tracks, we are just going to have to find or develop some non-sanctioned, HA/GR friendly places to race.
I'm biting my tongue here on a few things, but feel obligated to say something. 1. "Independent" or "Outlaw Tracks" are 90% of the time unsanctionable, meaning they can't p*** the required tests to receive insurance. It doesn't matter how much money a track owner says they can make by not sanctioning, it's VERY hard to insure a track without sanctioning. 2. If you ever get teched incorrectly, go for the book. Of course the most up to date changes are online, but don't stand for a local making his decisions over the SFI org or sanctioning body. Remember, they are all there for the safety of the spectators and fellow racers, not just the driver.
This would be great if SFI had some specifications for cars built using old ch***is as the basis, but I don't think they have any for using "T" or "A" rails or such so it's pretty hard to use that to our advantage. We can still build a safe car, but if they don't recognize our style of car, it does no good.
I knew I shouldn't have opened my mouth. I'm on your side, so please try to read what I wrote without putting a spin on it. I know SFI doesn't have any specifications for these cars, but they don't have anything for full bodies cars slower than 8.49 and I don't think that's what we're talking about here. By the way, the SFI tests are open-book, showing their trust in the written rule over an individual inspectors memory. C'mon man, I wasn't implying that the cars weren't safe, I simply said that you should take your concerns to the written rules and not take what the weekends tech inspector says as gospel.
No offense taken. The problem still exists that we aren't "full bodied cars", and they look at our cl*** as "center steer" purpose built cars, and the only rules that they have apply to much quicker and faster cars. We need to be able to create some common sense rules that apply to our cl*** and have then accept us by those rules. Actually we do have some rules already.......they just don't acknowledge them. If we can just get through to them that these are 12 second and slower cars, with full width rear axles it might help, but first we have to change the mindset that compares us to top fuel dragsters.
64 Dodge 440, Thanks for the replies. This is the reason I started this post, we are not running below the 12 second range and should not be lumped into the front engine dragster cl***es that are running in the 7 second range. The GTO is a perfect example of this. I had more safety equipment on my HA/GR than he did in the convertible and yet they gave me the third degree and did not take a second look at his car. I'm not saying his car was unsafe, but I will say mine is safer, and they were questioning me about everything. Jonny O, the only reason I ran was because I went to the book on the inspector. I told him my single hoop rollbar was good to 12:99 in the book and he shut up about it. My whole question is, Why should I have to tell the inspector what the rules are?? The push/pull switch and the rod around the seat were brought up after I p***ed tech. These are things they will be looking for next year.
Isn't there a mention in their rules about "dune buggy" type ch***is? I think ours are closer to that.
If we had a rear suspension we could probably qualify as a dune buggie. I have been reading this post for 2 days and I finally thought I would comment. We all want safety because as was said it is my **** sitting in the seat. With these cars we are trying to recreate the mood of the 50's. Some of the cars built in the 50's and 60's were death traps but most were safe cars. some of the things that we somehow need to address is the fact is that these are home built cars. Do all NHRA cars running have to be built by a certified shop? As I'm building my car there are things that I am doing such as a certified bellhousing because I want to keep my feet. I am going to try and add another roll bar because that seems to be a sticking point at a lot of tracks but all is for naught if these tracks want a certified ch***is. I have a friend who runs a rear engined dragster in NHRA comp bracket. He has two sponsers who pay thousands of dollars each year so he can race. If they pull out he would shut down immeditatly. He is a diesel mechanic and makes good wages but he said it costs about $40,000 a year to run his car. Wally Parks is not my hero because he killed amatuer drag racing. He didn't start up NHRA for safty but to make himself a millionaire. Roy
I don't know man, but it was good to see you did the right thing. Why do you have to remind the guy at NAPA that the battery is on sale this week and show him the ad? It's just a fellow who forgets, or gets ****y, or doesn't know. No harm no foul right? As far as what that "proven incorrect" inspector said, I wouldn't take his word for next year. I would wait until you see a written update. Just my .2 though. Don't quote me on this, but I don't think the builder matters at all. I think most sportsman cars at certain speeds need to be inspected and tagged, regardless of who built them. I know ch***is inspection in IHRA is around 90 buckaroos and goes through the basics: thickness and diameter, type of tube, placement, joint overlaps and rosettes. My advice is to call whatever sanctioning body you are planning on running with.
To answer the question does a car have to be built by a certified shop, No, the car only has to meet standards set forth by the NHRA concerning tubing size, tubing type, tubing placement and the type of welding for the material used. I.E. Mig for mild steel and TIG for chrome moly for a car to p*** a certification inspection. My car was home built to the NHRA rules and certified by the NHRA to run as fast as 7.50. I have had to add and change tubing over the last 15 years as the rules have changed. One of the rules that changed is now the same car is certified to go as fast as 8.50. I should also add that a ch***is certification is not the same as a safety or tech inspection. The NHRA requires that a ch***is certification is done on cars running 9.99 to 8.50 every 2 years. Safety or tech inspection is done every event.
So what ch***is certification is required for a 12 second car, and if they require MIG welds for mild steel and TIG welds for chromoly, where does that put any older ch***is that have been stick welded? It would seem to me that if the cars are slower than 12 seconds, a lot of their requirements don't apply. How can they let some of the true "vintage" cars do half track p***es, (at far quicker times and speeds than a HA/GR could ever attain), when they don't meet the current rules? Maybe we should just make a deal to only run 1/8 mile, and see if they would accept that option. Just grabbin' at straws here, but I think that some of the requirements are a bit over the top, and some allowances could be made for the construction along the lines of how cars were built "back then" without compromising safety, but still allowing people to build in their garages without having to invest half of the cost of their houses in equipment. Many Aircraft structures are are still built with an Oxy/Acetylene torch and they aren't falling out of the skies, and lots of structural iron is still ***embled with a stick welder and the buildings and bridges still stand. It seems absurd to say that those methods suddenly have lost viability for the construction of a car. Sorry if I have gotten a bit long winded on this matter, but "it ain't rocket surgery".
I think a main argument should be that these cars are "exibition only". At the tracks I run at, we run solo or against another of our kind. We can compete amoungst ourselves but I don't think any of us want to compete against a modern, compe***ive dragster.
You are right about competeing a**** ourselves. That was the whole deal was we were going to build these rails and put on a show and have some fun in the process. I think that it is right that if we grow in numbers we will draw more attention. If we stay in the 12.00s and high 11.00s we are not going to put any undo stress on these cars. With the 6 inch treaded tires we should never be able to put a lot of power to the ground. I guess I'm rambling on thinking as I write about how a tech and a track should look at these cars. Oh well, if any of you guys in California what to come here and run your cars you can stay at my house and save a motel bill. Roy
when i finally get around to doing mine, i'm putting a narrowed 'gl*** t-bucket body on it and headlights and a big stiff heavy-*** model AA truck spring on the back. hell, i'll even go get the damn thing registered. Single Seater Street Roadster. period.
According to my 2007 NHRA rule book any car running 9.99 or quicker needs a certified ch***is. The reason I'm reluctant to build a HA/GR is because there are none in my area. So, I would want to run brackets and Test and Tune locally. That means p***ing NHRA inspection at the track. If they call it a dragster, then it needs a dragster roll bar designed as specified in the rule book. A single hoop with 2 braces, like an enclosed body car with doors needs is not accepted in an open car. I have (had actually) a gl*** Fiat drag race body on a home made tube ch***is with a 406 SBC. It is a street driven car and runs high 11's at the strip. It has a 12 point cage and all the other safety requirements for a car with a body. But NHRA will not accspt it because it does not have doors. I have to get in through the big hole in the roof. NHRA calles it an Altered and, as such wants a funny car type cage around the driver (not too practical for the street), arm restraints, etc. This summer I replaced the Fiat body with a Crosley Wagon body. Now I have doors. No other safety changes were made. I p***ed tech this summer because of the different (and lesser) requirements for a bodied "door car". I suspect a lone HA/GR would get turned away at most NHRA strips. 1/8 mile tracks, non-NHRA tracks and NHRA tracks where a group is renting the track for a Nostalgia Meet are the most likely places where HA/GR cars will be accepted. While I'm far from an expert on these issues, I have studied and asked lots of questions because of the problems I had running my Fiat. It is encouraging that HA/GR's ran at Goodguys Indy, which is an NHRA track. So there's some precident. Through the years, lots of drag cl***es have come and gone. It's obvious NHRA has recognized the interest in nostalgia racing, and as a result they put on the two Hot Rod reunions. Someone (or a group) that knows the administrative and political workings of NHRA needs to make a formal proposal to permit HA/GR's to run at all their sanctioned tracks. I'm guessing if they agree to anything, they'll limit them to 1/8 mile.
I run at two local NHRA tracks in my area on test/tune nights and have never had a problem. The tech on these nights is really a joke. Have you run the car anywhere else? How fast did it go? This is the tech that I have to p*** on test/tune nights. I do not think you will have a problem until you go to a meet that draws a lot of people and they really tech the cars. I p***ed tech, it was just a big h***le and I do not see why they make a big deal out of it. I used to drag race motorcycles and ran the 1/4 in 8.50 seconds at 160 mph. I wore a Snell approved helmet, full leathers and gloves and that was it. Now I'm running the 1/4 in 14.5 seconds at 96 mph, with a single hoop roll bar, fire suit, arm restraints, five point harness, Snell approved helmet, and gloves. Is it only me or do I see a hugh difference there? I am hoping that as more of these come to the surface, NHRA will wake up and realize that we are not "front engine" dragsters that are running in the 7's. I would not mind running in an "exhibition" cl*** if that is what it takes. The Southern Slingshots ran exhibition at this meet and ran the full 1/4.
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