Ok guys, here's the situation. My Merc is with ugly red oxide and I dont wanna peal it, just give it some coats of primer over. Question is : which kind of primer is better for a long term period before I decide to paint the car ? I was told to use epoxy primer. What do you think ? any brands recommended ? Thanks Diego
As always, I'd say HOK Epoxy primer. Its not completely impenetrable, but its the best I've used. I leave all the stuff I do in that before its time for paint, but thats never more than a month or so and its usually inside.
My vote goes to PPG DP40. My 48 Ford has been as dorment project for 15 years. I stripped the entire car to bare metal and put 2 coats of DP 40 on and it still looks real good after 15 years of sitting. I dont think you can get away spraying it over the old primer, I would strip it down to bare metal. DP 40 was designed to go on bare steel!
Primer wont last very long,,,unless you have a dorment project that sits for 15 years,,, I have been building cars a looong time and didn't get my nickname from driving shiny cars,,, I have spray more primer trying to keep it looking fairly decent and tried all of them,,,DP-90 in the real world,,,driver that sits in the driveway ain't gonna look worth a sh*t in 6 months,, Primer is just that,,,primer,, Try some kind of enamel or urethane with a flatner in it,,,,my .02 cents worth,,,HRP
This may seem nuts, but in a pinch I shot some Dupli-color Red oxide from ORielly's. It was on the cowl of my daily work truck, which has never spent a day or night inside, and was shot over bare metal. This was 4 years ago... Last week I took it off and it had zero rust under, and the metal was as clean and shiney as when I put it on. The visor was DP, which there is no longer any DP. It's called something else now... I forget what. Was like HOTRODPRIMER said, chalky and crappy after 6 months.
I put dupont Uro primer on my 55 10 years ago, it's been out in the weather and driven lotsa miles and still looks ok. It did start to chalk a little after maybe 7 years or so.
I dont know if you can get it black..but it's probably similar stuff to DP40. Good primer is expensive, so you might think about stripping the car before you put it on....I would not trust it to seal whatever unknown primer is on the car now.
My $.02 used Dupont URO prime on my vw bug over 10yrs. ago drove it daily no problems, the guy at the paint store told me because it was 2 part urathane ,it was resistant to moisture sucking if I didn't break it open (sanding) ,stayed in primer for 2 1/2yrs. no problems. blocked it and painted chroma-one over it still no problems. it came in gray or buff (yellow). I expermented tinting the buff once with single stage toner it worked o.k. but not recomended Brian.
Hi wood, Let me get this straight. You used Dupont URO for 2 and a half ears, then chorma-one till now ? One question: what is chroma-one ? Thanks Diego
This is what I used on my truck,,,,It is not a primer but it holds up to repeated washings and weather and still retains a even looking finish. I scuffed the existing paint and primed the bare metal and sprayed the Kirkker Semi Gloss black,,,,,HRP Kirker - Automotive Finishes
it doesn't matter how good of anything you put on the car if you put it over whats on the car now. whatever miosture is on or in the car will stay there unless you blast it and start fresh. either way... an epoxy primer is the way to go. i use dupont its got a bit of a shine but scuff it lightly and put put something over it. you gotta protect the metal, cause primer doesn't keep the moisture out and the other guys are right DP-90 looks like crap 6 months later, and sands like crap too.
Thanks Hunter...., Im not in the mood for pealing the boat. The car has not seen the light, no rain since pealed and that awful red oxide was applied. I guess it will be OK. Any good brand for epoxy primer other than Dupont ? Thanks again D.
Thanks guys. Any other input ? I definetely want do it without taking the red oxide. I think I'll go with a black epoxy primer.
Hey Diego, The paint products we have in North America may, or may not be available down where you live. The DP-90 we had here a few years ago ,has been re-formulated (no-lead), it is not the same product! I use to shoot "Yellow Death",the old yellow colored DP-90, and it would hold rust out like a powder coat job, I ain't bettin' I'll get that kinda service from the new DP-90 LF. Swankey Devils C.C.
Just got a new Eastwood catalog and they have a new single stage top coat flat black product. Price was reasonable and maybe they would ship to you. I've also rolled on Ellis zinc chromate primer with good results - not as porus as regular primer.
The DP line these guys are talkin about is PPG. DP-90LF would be the one you would find. Epoxy primer in many different colors. I still vote for the HOK stuff I mentioned earlier in the thread, but I have also used PPG. ppgrefinish.com
fine then.., thanks S&L. I think I'll go with PPG.., that HOK stuff doesnt seem to exist here. Any other opinion about doing the job over the red oxide ? whats the worst thing that could happen ? having to retouch some parts from time to time ? As I said, the car will go out only on weekends and will never ever see the rain. And im not planing to have the car like that for more than a year tops. I was told the the epoxy primer has a better finish than plain primer. True ? Thanks D.
I'd use whatever's cheap and easy to get. It's all gonna hold up for the time and use you propose, and it's all gonna have to come back off later due to lack of prep beforehand. If it wasn't for the lines they leave in large panels leading to a sh*tty finish, spray can paint probably has durability to meet this demand.
ive used a lot of the ppg epoxy, it holds up great. it does sand like crap but it really is good at fighting off rust. ive also used valspar epoxy which was way cheaper and seems to really hold up good. my bud picked up some kirker epoxy off epay for pretty cheap and it came in black. i wouldnt shoot it over any old primer, as if it does start to fail you then have to sand through epoxy and the old red oxide under it instead of just the red epoxy now. if you have to keep it outside throw a cover on it to protect it fro mthe sun and it shouldnt get all chalky. my other bud used u-tech or something epoxy and kept the car under a tarp outside over a year in his backyard, it looked great when he pulled the tarp off.
Great advice blasted, thanks a lot. Now excuse my painting ignorace, what is 4-1-1 and 4-1-2 Thanks a lot Diego
PPG's line of DP epoxy primer-sealer is designed to be a base for all top coats and as a sealer to use under certain base coats. I have had this product on a daily driver 28 pickup for over 10 years. In everyday weather it will chalk in a few months time like others here have stated. I keep mine looking good by (don't laugh) wiping down with trans fluid every once in a while. The DP does provide a protection that you can't get with the red oxide lacquer primer or any urethane primer. These will allow moisture to pass through them to the metal and will eventually rust beneath the primer and or paint . Also the comments about the DP not sanding good are correct. It isn't designed to be a fill primer. Anything more than a couple of medium coats is a waste. For those that are using the DP as a finish coat there are options to get a smoother finish. The DP has to be mixed with a activator and there are two types. DP401LF and DP402LF. The DP mixed with 401 can be sprayed as soon as mixed. The DP mixed with 402 has to have a 30 minute induction time for the chemicals to activate. The 402 will lay down with a smoother finish. Any of the reputable paint companies have a epoxy primer that is usually available in several colors and they all serve the purpose of providing a solid foundation for all body fillers, primers and finish coats. As others here have stated using the DP over the red oxide is a waste in my opinion. If it is only temporary and you will be striping again later just use some black lacquer primer. A few alternatives for a suede finish that will not chalk. The best finish is to paint whatever color you want and use a flat clear. I have also had good results with DuPont Hot Hues hot rod black. Both of these will cost you the same as doing a normal base clear or single stage paint finish. A cheaper way that I have also had good results with is to use John Deere or Equipment black single stage in a cheaper line paint. PPG , Dupont and Sherwin Williams all have a cheaper product line that will do nice job for usually about 1/4 to1/3 the price. Hope this helps.
4-1-1.etc is the mixing ratio...4 parts primer-1 part activator-1 part reducer....paint mixing cups will have marks set up on the side for this
This may sound strange, but here is what I did a few times.... If I know I won't be able to get to a real paint job in a reasonable amount of time, and the old paint looks bad or multi colored, I shoot primer right over the old stuff. That gives me a lot of extra time to get ready for the real thing. Normally I would strip a car down and do a good body-and-paint-job that took weeks and weeks, but for my daily work truck that I thought would probably stay in primer for years while I caught up on other things, I left the old paint on it and sprayed primer over the top of all the paint layers. That old paint underneath protects it much more than just primer would. It makes the truck all one color (flat white DuPont primer), gives it the look of a project that is coming along nicely even if it isn't, it allows me to quickly fix damage and blend it right in in just a matter of minutes, and it still has the look of an old primered rod. The issue of primers that do not protect is irrelevant, since the paint below is the real protection anyway. I can fix dings and scratches, and have them blended right in in just a matter of minutes. You can't do that with a candy, or clearcoat, or metallic color. Keeping primer clean? I wash it with a hose and a used Scotchbrite pad. Since the panels will get stripped before the real paint job anyway, I don't worry about the primer soaking in any oils etc. If you decide to eventually work on all the panels with the intent to end up with a great paint job, you can work on one panel at a time, and at least it won't look like a multi-colored mess as you go along with the project. If I stripped it and then primered it, the clock would be ticking. This way I have all the time in the world to keep putting off the real work until I am ready. I get compliments on it all the time, and it no longer gets the "Sanford and Son" comments it used to. It looks "good enough" for now, and I can stall for more time without worrying about the metal not being protected by porous primer....
I was told by an old school So Cal rodder to spray the cheapest primer you can find, wet sand it and apply a good wax to it. (real deal rodder from the 50's and 60's) He said that is what all the guys did in So cal back in the day, they spent their cash on going fast, not on shiney paint. They were also always working on body mods, etc so a "finished" car was just not in the budget at the time. I have seen some of his "traditional" stuff and it looks great, even after many months. He said you can always do a light wet sand to keep it fresh and then add another coat of wax. I tried it once on a 62 caddy I bought, it was in beat white primer- rattle can and looked like hell. I sanded it all down and waxed it and no one could believe how great it looked. (took be about $10 and 2 hours) I am going to try it in black on my 48 coupe very soon. Like the guys back in the day, I don't have the cash or the skills to "finish" the car. So for now, it will be a work in progress. (if it comes out like the caddy, it will be awesome!) Everytime I do some body work, I'll shoot it with more primer, sand and wax... some day when it is "done" (longer fenders, chop top, running boards, etc) I will take it all down to bare metal and make it shiney. Until then it will be a work in progress...
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