Did you ever jack up the ch***is in the rear and move the rear axle(without the spring attached)?? I don't think that the rear suspension works..... Michael
When I was building my 32 pickup I ask the question about using the old torque tube rear bones and most every answer was don't! I was dead set against 4 bar or triangle set up type,,,,,I settled for the pete and jake ladder bar setup,,,,man,, am I glad I did. The way they are made they dont hang low like the ladder bars I remember from the 60's,,,I've added a couple of photos to give you an idea of how they look,,HRP
So how screwed am I for this? Used the stock '33 rear bones, split and run to the frame rail. I did weld a piece of 3/4x3/4x1/8" angle the entire length of the inside of the bones. These are not cast ends. Torque bar is of the ladder type, and run to the same forward point as the end of the bones. It is 1" tube with 1/8" wall. Bolted to three studs on the rearend housing. I've got at least 3k miles on this setup. Do I worry, or drive it? Drive it and keep an eye on it, or redo it? Thanks - always second-guessing the **** I do.
why is every one on here so retarded ... those are not "36 wishbones" those bones are 2 yrs only 35 36 and will work fine... people put 40 bones on something and expect that paper thin forging to hold... its not gonna ...ive told people this over and over ... if people dont have a little bit of engineering know how or common sense people shouldnt be building suspension componets, im glad nothing serious happened in this case , but when i rear end comes out of a car at freeway speed, people could die, people need to stop and think about that .. BRAKES AND SUSPENSION ARE SERIOUS BUSSINESS! people have NO bussinees building cars or ch***is work if you dont understand the fundamentals related to them!!!!!!
Hey I hate to see this happen, bummer about your car. glad you werent hurt. I was looking into doing something on my A build, and i want honest opinions. Iafter seeing this I am wondering if my idea ****s. Please dont flame me, im only trying to learn. I was looking at the possibility of using my original Radius rods on and open drive train 350/700r4 set up. w a 9" or 8" rear end. But here is what my idea was..and maybe its been done before. i was going to build a cross member that was going to allow the rear radius rods to go back into what would be the "original" location. Is this do-able? is it reliable? is it stupid? who's done it..will i have the same issue as this poor guy?
sorry 5 window my intention was not to hi jack your thread..it just seemed to fit in here..if you want me to pull my own thread i will..or those of you out there who read this want to correspond to my questions please Pm me
I'm glad you're ok. I've read thru this, and seen some good suggestions. The one thing that I would suggest that you consider is a pan-hard rod. Best of luck.
blasted has it right. I come from the same sprint car background (midgets actually) I've run dirt and pavement. we run solid axle front suspension on them with a four bar type setup on the front. when we run dirt we would take one of the left side bars off the car and make it a three bar setup to allow the axle to rotate freely with out binding. the minute you put that fourth bar back on (for asphalt) it stops any ch***is rotation around the axle due to binding. it basically turns the axle and four bar into a sway bar.
Yeah blasted is right. It has been discussed a thousend times before on here .....and there were some really good soloutions.Just do a search......... Michael
Yeah, you can gussett up the bone-to-forging joint all you want, it's just gonna break somewhere else. The key concept some of these guys are not understanding is that if you pull the front joints out wide to the sides of the frame, you are creating one large sway bar. And that bar don't sway. It breaks. I bought a gorgeous fully chromed '55 Chevy rear axle with coil shock buckets and ladder bar brackets welded to it ala Total Performance 1976. But then I looked closer and saw the CRACKS in the housing where the straight-ahead-pointed ladder bar brackets where welded. One giant sway bar. Hopefully I can weld the cracks and replace the straight brackets with inward angled brackets and not destroy too much chrome (touch up with some Missouri chrome in a can).
Nice setup. I notice there isn't a panhard bar, are there any stability issues if you're just relying on the triangulation of 4-bars for lateral location? I've heard they aren't as stable if you run significant HP, but is that true? Thanks.
Yea, but , EVERYBODY does the same thing on the front! Why the rear would be different? I mean pulling the bones out to the frame???
Glad to see you came out in good shape. I'm using a 48 Ford FRONT wishbone, unsplit to locate the rear in my tub. The logic is "If it can hold up to the weight of a 48 in the front, then it ought to be overkill for my tub in the back". The "swivel" ball is mounted in a custom crossmember that also supports the transmission. It essentially works as ladder bars. The idea was debated about a year ago on here. Search under my name for pics if you are interested.
Cause an I-Beam will flex...even if it's not the best design. If EVERYBODY does it, doesn't mean it has to be right......
Looking through here, I see a lot of transverse leaf spring set ups with a panhard rod. What gives? Isn't that going to cause a **** load of bind?
It supposedly keeps the car from trying to 'wobble' as it goes down the road, or having to wait for it to 'take a set' as it goes into a turn. I don't know, maybe I'm just a wus, but when I drove my A when it was stock (before rodding it) it was unnerving as all get out the way it went down the road. I have plans to make an 'A' speedster, but I am debating using a panhard bar or a solid spring mount (no shacle, on one side) for the front at least. I forget what the spring mount without a shacle is called, but IIRC there was a thread about them not too long ago. There were ones that would swivell too, to avoid spring bind.
At the risk of repeating others, instead of reading all of the posts, I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents. Wish bones were designed to keep the rear end in the propper location under the car. The torque tube does just what it says, it controlls the torque of the rear axle. When you eliminate the torque tube you are then putting forces on the wishbones to control the torque that they weren't designed for. Traditional is one thing, safety could be another. All told Glad you made it out un****hed. The car can be fixed stronger than it was.
How is running ladder bars or hairpin radius rods on the rearend any different from running hairpins on the front with a tube axle? I know that the front tube/hairpins in a no no, but isn't the rear axle a tube as well that is prone the the same forces as the front? The housing can't twist when encountering bumps so wouldn't a ladder bar or hairpin mount on the rear be subject to the same breaking forces as a tube axle on the front with welded on brackets? it seems like the only safe way to hang the rearend is with a 4-bar or parallel leafs. Any thoughts?
Only if you are driving a front wheel drive hot rod. Actually ladder bars and hairpins should have mounting points above and below the axle to control rotation of the axle caused by torque. If you only have a lower mount you cannot control the roation from one point and that is where the breakage comes from.
BTW,,Did you know that the 4 bar setup was first marketed by Pete & Jakes back in the 70's,,,so these guys know suspension. In reality the Pete & Jake ladder bars work like a 4 bar setup they only have 3 points per side instead of 4 that pivot on rod ends much like the 4 bar so there is no twist to deal with,,,,they work the best by mounting the front of the ladder bar inboard much like the original torque tube rods. There is nothing wrong with a 4 bar setup,,,,and I have had several over the years home built and store bought,,,, But having the desire to build a simple style,,,the ladder bar has all the positives,,it works! and none of the negitives,,,,HRP
You are exactly correct, except for the last comment. Using split wishbones or hairpins on a tube axle will give you the same problem as happens on the rear. Maybe there are a few more joints (batwings and spring perches) to absorb movement and twist, but essentially you are asking for breakage. As for the last comment, 4-bars actually have some twisting going on as well, but it is supposedly absorbed in the bushings on the end. And parallel leafs are all about bending metal, but spring steel is supposed to bend. I think the only "perfect" suspension is Henry Ford's stock wishbone/torquetube design. One pivot point, one spring point, no bind, good ride.
I know this is an older thread, but due to this thread my friend Logan decided to change his 36 rear end design after I mentioned it. He made this torque arm type set up, seems to work very well. He is a perfectionest to say the least, so I wasn't surprised when it turned out perfect. Heres a pic of his car as well.
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