Many good posts on this thread. Just paid $500 for winter storage and the annual insurance premium. I should drive it more; I'd feel better about the costs. It's nice to have a vehicle that's theoretically appreciating, though.
I dont know if this will fall in the lines of the cost thing..but i remember growing up that my dad always had a neat car project going on...one of the things that used to bug me was that he never held on to any of the cars for very long...he would get a project so far and someone would offer some money for it and he would sell it to get something a step closer to what he really wanted.. We always went to the swap meets that were held twice a year...and i have beaten more miles with him looking for guys who knew guys who knew this guy who had a stash of parts that he might sell or trade for..I never understood why my dad would stash 12 carbs to get 2 good ones out of the whole pile or hoard parts that he was never going to use just to trade off.. I remember in my younger days when i used to have all of the answers i told him...dad i'm never going to be like you just getting junk and holding onto it trying to make something work..if i need a carb i'm just going to go buy a new one and be done with it... Well i got older and found my way into the evil world of the credit card...no the card isnt really evil but i couldnt control myself...and i did as i told my dad i was going to do years before..i bought all the parts new...now i am paying for it...not only in the money department but i began to realize that when i was out beating the bush with my dad and going to the swap meets it was more about meeting guys and getting to know them...the cost of building a rod or custom has gone up...it is harder to find the cars now than when i was growing up...but they can be found...if you have a friend that knows a guy who's cousin knew a guy that had a car like that...i know..thats how i got my 38 ford... I am now hoarding parts i know i will never use..looking for cheap cars or trucks i can turn to get a little bit of profit off of to try and get some money to put into the 38...i know my dad is laughing at me...but it took me getting so deep into debt to realize that my lifestyle with cars has a longer reaching effect than just the money side of it...there is also a cost on the person side of it that takes a hit too..
Well said Jay! Yeah....that's what I've been doing too.....getting cars cheap that I can flip to make a few bucks, as I don't have much extra "take home" $$$ from my regular job once bills are paid and kids are fed.....and doing side jobs, be it brake jobs for neighbors or custom painting bikes/cars.....hoarding parts to sell later at swaps too... But I do have a hotrod.....and I'll be able to sell it for more than I have into it to get me one step closer to the car I really want to build (there are a few...haha)
Can i say as one that has always been into cars or hot rods. You young men that are not yet married how important it is to date a girl that has the same passion for cars that you do. My wife and I have been married for over 44 years and we have never had a problem about speeding money on cars or hot rods. Cars are not cheap and never have been and back in the 60's when I was making 415.00 a month I brought a 33 5 window for 250.00. My wife had to sell her 34 ford sedan to keep our shop going, you do what you have to do to support your habit. To day she has her own 32 roadster and as of date she has over 60K miles on it. So guys take it from a 64 year old hot rodder try to pick your mate for one that loves cars as much as you do because you know that you are not going to change. Bruce Bruce's Rod Shop
In the middle sixties, a black and white third of a page speed equipment ad with a second color cost $995 in HOT ROD magazine. That ad reached over 1,000,000 readers. Today, that same ad runs close to $10,000 and has a reach of around 700,000 readers. By the same token, HRM subscribers are paying as little as $12.00 for a current 12 month subscription today and we paid 50 cents an issue in the late fifties! I'm getting a headache!
There is a very well known glass '32 roadster that was built for exactly that by a well known and liked HAMB member, was driven around the country for years and was recently sold for a profit. It can be done if you do the work yourself and shop swamp meets. Nice interior was even done by him. Car was flat black.
For me right now it´s kinda hard to spend a lotta money on my project. Everything here in germany gets more expensive all the time. The gas price is 1.48 Euros for ONE liter of gas, that would be $7.50 for a gallon in the US !!!!!! Even the taxes, insurance fu**ing everything increases ! But I´m trying to keep focus on my 27 roadster. I love this hobby, I don´t know what I´d do without it. So the progress is kinda slowly. Even thou we get most of the parts here in good ole´germany, (thanks to all my friends who sell speed parts) it´s necessary to order stuff from the US also, of course. Long story short, for us europeans who are not doctors or lawyers it´s sometimes expensive to build a traditional rod or kustom. But on the other hand it works out for the most of us because we don´t drive brandnew audis or bmws. We rather spend the cash on old iron and drive shitty daily drivers !
Rocketeer, I have the greatest respect and admiration for you guys in Europe!!! Some of the nicest cars and trucks in the world can be found in Germany, Sweden, Norway and all over Europe. You guys have a much harder time building a rod and maintaining a real "driver". The others of us scattered about the US and some other countries really have it quite easy in comparison. I'm humbled by the quality of your hot rods!!
I was looking at the HAMB during lunch at work one day, and my colleague turned around and saw what I was looking at. And I made a comment about how jealous I was of some of you cats -- nice cars and such. He said "Yea, but you've gotta be a rich man to do that shit." And he's always made comments about that -- how it's a money pit, and that I'm stupid for doing shit like this, or at least, something in that vein. But it hit me, especially that day -- he says stuff like that, yet he has a big and growing firearms collection, two huge TVs, various computer goodies, every game system that's out right now except the Wii (which will probably be added shortly), and the list goes on and on. I've had the same TV since I was like 13. And so on and so forth. Perspective, I guess. Hobbies ain't cheap, like everyone's said -- he spends over a grand on an AR-15, and I spend half of that for carburetors. Whatever.
i recently visited a family friend who had a "basic house " .. a uncluttered garage .1 newer car. spartan furnishings and no junk in the basement .. they were complaining of the clutter in the back yard which was approx 7 pieces of asst. wood leftover from a simple bathroom floor patch .. my girlfriends comment of how we prolly have that much "wood" in our kitchen at any given time .. leads to this we do what we want... i like cars and we do all sorts of other projects ourselves... we have 20+cars not all running.. we go to auctions ,garage sales and we live in "clutter"according to others but... WE ARE LIVING OUR DREAM ! THESE FRIENDS DON'T HAVE AS MUCH STUFF AND THEY MAY HAVE A LITTLE MORE MONEY IN THE BANK. OFTEN THEY ASK US TO HELP THEM OUT CUZ WE HAVE WHAT THEY NEED FURNITURE, TOOLS, CAR PARTS, OR EVEN A LOANER CAR...THEY THROW OUT WHAT WE WOULD SAVE SOMETIMES ... BUT THEY DON'T SEEM HAPPY AS WE DO.. HOT RODDERS ARE SELF SUFFICIANT AND NEED LITTLE TO KEEP THEM HAPPY IF WE WERE NOT SO HANDY AND DID NOT LIKE WHAT WE DO... IT WOULD COST PLENTY TO HAVE MAINTAIN OUR LIFESTYLE we are frequently asked how we can have what we have ? .. isn't old cars a expensive hobby ?.. we say that not drinkin , smokin , having a new car every other year eatin dinner out more than few times a month,not havin the latest gadgets ....... is ok with us but hoppin in and old car .. cruisin and maybe breakin down or spending the day at auction for a 5 dollar deal is what we call fun pick a dream life and live it .. complain about life and be sorry for the way you live!
Average income's are misleading. One guy making 6 times more what 50 other guys make bumps the average way up. Averages are what bean counters use. Interesting article for sure... I don't see any restored or hopped up 1980 toyota, hondas..or even chevys... Aftermarket parts have drivin this hobbie a long time Wow
As is figuring the value of a Deuce in the general cost of hotrodding! What HRL described is an Arithimetic MEAN, and how it can confuse the issues. A Deuce's value is like the guy who makes 6 times what everyone else does and calling it "average", (although he's probably still what is considered "middle class".) A better "average" to use would be the "MODE". That would be the most common hotrod's price's or the most frequently occuring "average guy's" income. Another confusing statistic News people like to spout off is the MEDIAN. You could have 99% of the people in the group making $100.00 a year and 1 person making a $1,000,000.00 (million) a year and the MEDIAN income is $500,050.00 a year!
Actually I think it would be $100 as isnt it the number in the middle which seperates the upper and lower ranges?? Back on topic. The other side of the equation is income. If its expensive, one way around it is to increase your income and one of the best ways to do that is education. I have four qualifications and a good job and that helps fuel my cars - but its still hard to get my head around spending $17K for the 392 hemi build, and thats if the crank is salvagable.
Yeah Panhead's got it right. The MEDIAN in your example would be $100.00. We tend to use the geometric Mean when looking at income.
Never thought about it this way, but I'm sure it's true... We rodders are usually more "mcgiverish" than others. We'll often save money with our the hands-on skills. How many of us would pay someone for random labor? Drywall? Painting? Plumbing? We can do it all... and save cash by doing it! Just think about the money we save by doing our own preventative maintenance on our families daily drivers!!! You know how much a brake job on a '00 cavalier costs? My girlfriend does! And I'm a saint in her eyes for taking the 30 min to do it for her!
The Mode would be $100. But this just demonstrates how statistics can be used to justify whatever you want it to.
Lets make it less ambiguous, and a bit more realistic. Lets take two people making $100.00 a year. (Homeless and lousy beggars?) 10 people making $20,000.00 a year, 86 people making $70,000.00 a year, and two making $1,000,000.00 a year each. The mode, the most commonly occuring example, would be $70,000.00 per year. The mean "average" would be $82,202.00 (Even though no one actually makes that particular amount, it's like having 2.2 children) And the mode would be $500,050.00 (half way between the higest group and the lowest group.) Unless they've changed the meanings in statistics since I took it in college, which wouldn't surprise me at all.
DrJ, you are using the"arithmentic" mean (or average), most income statistics (and me) typically use the "geometric" mean - the amount of which 1/2 of the data points fall above and 1/2 fall below. So in your example, the mean is $70,000.
BAD ROD, In the example, 12 were earning less than $70,000 and only two were earning more than $70,000. The mode is the value among the set of values that appears most. In this set of data, the mode is $70,000. With such an example, which isn't very realistic in the way so many make exactly the same amount, about the only meaningful alternative way to describe the distribution of earnings in that group is a bar graph.
OK, I promise (cross my heart) this is my last post here... Yes, the mode is $70,000. I was addressing the "mean". The mean ("geometric mean", not the "arithmentic mean" - which most people call "average") is $70,000 also.I like fast fords!!!!! Let me in my garage!!!!!!!
Wow. The mathmatical discussion is kinda hard to read/understand but it does show how you can make the numbers support whatever point you're trying to make. What I find interesting, reading through old 50's rod mags, is that it was pretty common for a feature car article to say how much the builder had in the car. Like "Joe Rodder spent over $3000 building this car, including....." I don't think any current car mags post how much the builder spent. I've also read that in Australia, a lot of the late-model customizers (boy-racers I guess is the term) brag on how much they spent building their cars, and that having someone else do all the work for them is considered like a status symbol. Can anyone confirm that? Odd that in the US I hear more bragging on how little a car cost to build and bragging rights are reserved for those who built the cars themselves.
The 'geometric' mean, which most people call the median, is, along with the mode, and the the most commonly accepted mean, that being the arithmetic mean, aka the average, each gives us a look at one part of the elephant. The elephant is neither a wall, a snake, a rope, nor a tree, even though parts thereof suggest same.
When has anything enjoyable ever been cheap. Think about all the money that you have invested into the women in your life. Compared to that hot roding is pretty fuck'in cheap
I started buying cars in the mid 60's when I got my license.....After a few years of buying and selling, I built up a float of $2000.00 that I used for my car habit......To put it in perspective, a good wage here was $800. to $1000. a month......With my $2000. float, I could pretty much buy almost any finished hot rod or custom car that was for sale, and most of the time have change left over.......Now, I make 10 times the wage, and have to occasionally dip into my line-o-credit for my car......But that's OK.....I love my car, and the whole hobby/social end of it......whatever it costs is worth it......I see it as one of life's necessities that keeps me alive and stimulated, and I always have something to look forward to........
The Jalopy Journal
