you know, I think a lot of us are getting tired of flamers on the board... Hey man, if the car is the blue T that was refered to near the beginning of this thread, it's a pretty damn nice ride.. no rust, gloss blue... not that it's my style, but obvious that is a well built ride.. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2279350&highlight=dodgerodder#post2279350 I'm sorry to see this happen to these guys... but thankfully there was not too much harm done and this incident can help out a lot of other builders! ... think before you speak next time please...
The discoloration on it looks like the copper used before they chromed it. Nice clean break, just like his neck could had been. I'd be stompin a mud hole in somebodies *** over faulty parts.
This is a pretty important thread my Unionville friend. alot of guys have new pitman arms they are'nt too sure about now. Myself included. Not a good time/place for jokes.
The steering arm says a lot about Chinese made parts. This comment says a lot about many Americans. You breathed on me wrong, I'm suing.
Unfortunately, if Speedway doesn't handle the issue with any sense of responsibility, a lawyer would be the only recourse. (Just a hypothetical, not knocking Speedway). I don't have much faith that corporations will own up to their faults...But I'm not looking to get rich off someone's mistake either, should it happen to me. This is a lot different than a hot cup of coffee.
He got the car stopped with no damage. So aside from them replacing the steering arm and maybe a new pair of BVD's, what would their "sense of responsibility be"? I agree that it TOTALLY ****s, but a large lawsuit only does 2 things. Makes them m***ively raise prices to pay off the lawsuit or now way higher insurance rates, or close it's doors. If we, as the consumers, continue to flock to cheaper import parts, rather then pay for quality, then we should accept at least some of the responibility. My point is simply that people are too quick to sue anymore. Years ago if your neighbors dog bit you (talking a small bite, not a major tear) you went home, hated the dog, the neighbor appologised for it, and maybe they made you a plate of cookies. Now days before the dog even opens its mouth people are on the phone with their lawyers, then ***** about high insurance rates. Had he of hit the wall and seriously got hurt or even damaged the car, yep I understand a lawsuit, but what do YOU think a fair "amount is" in this situation??????
It looks like it was cast in ****stan or China.......you get what you pay for. .....like Unkle Ian said, cheap parts KILL I only use Ford FORGED pitman arms
Um, thanks for the advice? Look, I will admit I posted 50% on the happenings, and the other 50% on the other sites name......ratrodsrule or some ****. Whatev... Point is....its 2007 here. How long are we going to be surprised by this?? **** is being made overseas, nobody is (when all is said and done) accountable for it being made up to US standards, as long as the almighty "overhead" is cut and bottom line increased. We cant seem to keep lead paint covered toys out of our kids mouthes that are coming over in droves from oversea producers...you think anyone in government gives a **** about chrome steering linkage enough to do something about it? Sure Ive cut corners on builds, no doubt. Using sheetmetal from a fridge door for small patch panels, cheap bodyfill/paint, even ****py oil. But steering/stopping? No way man. Ill pony up the extra bucks for **** I can trust. Good to hear the guy is safe and maybe, if anything, this will be in our minds next time we are tempted to cheap out on a life or death component.
I'm not saying that anybody should sue Speedway. By 'Sense of Responsibility", I was referring to the possibility that they would try to hide the problem, or refuse to fix it. They made the part after all (and looking closely at the pics, it looks pretty cheap to begin with). Seriously though, quality control seems off the board whether its made in the US or China. I can't count the number of failures I've had in the last couple years - and I try to buy the good stuff. Distributor rotors, alternators, fan belts, not to mention the hydraulic lifter/camshaft wear problems we've all heard of... There's no difference any more between the high end parts, and the discount stuff. Case in point: Go to O'Reilley and ask for a Moog ball joint. Then ask for their bargain brand. Its the same piece, guaranteed. They get all the seconds and blemishes that Moog won't sell under its name, and sell them under theirs. Same warranty, half the price. I feel the problem is the way corporations approach manufacturing, whether its outsourced overseas or not. Its up to the corp's to do quality control and inspection after the parts are manufactured. If China or whoever is dropping the ball on QC, be it lead paint in toys or weak castings, shouldn't someone be catching it before it gets to the investigative reporters? or worse...
WTF! looks like "pakastani potmetal" to me! time to let them know that this is ********, stop buying from them these guys were lucky.
Actually Speedway doesn't make the part, they sell the part. Would be like going after Pep Boys because a brand of brakes they sold, failed. That is one issue here about the "Chinese parts". No accountability here in the US. When you buy most companies speed/aftermarket parts, many often enclose a "release of liability" that says something to the effect of "by using these parts the USER determines the funcuality of the parts and thus ***umes full responsibility. Also that (insert company name here) limits it's liability to the cost of the replacement of such part, not to any damages caused by use or misuse of said part". You know those instructions you throw away???? Lol, after I wrote that, I wondered if it was on their site, and here it is on copy/paste. WARRANTY DISCLAIMER: The purchaser understands and recognizes that racing parts, specialized street rod equipment, and all parts and services sold by us are exposed to many and varied conditions due to the manner in which they are installed and used. We make no warranties either expressed or implied, including any warranty of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose other than those contained in its current catalog with respect to the goods identified on the face of the invoice. There is no warranty expressed or implied as to whether the goods sold hereby will protect the purchaser or ultimate user of such goods from injury or death.
This is the post from the other site from the owner of the car in this thread. He wanted it posted over here. <HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1> <!-- / icon and ***le --><!-- message --> Welcome. I'm the guy with the busted arm. I saw the thread that Rab71 posted. All I wanted to do was alert people using the same arm to be careful and check theirs out. Do me a favor please. Post on that thread that I am extremely happy with Speedway's response to this issue, and have no reason to want to sue or do anything to them. No damage was done to me or the car. I have dealt with Speedway for over 20 years and swear by their customer service. Tim in Customer Service could not have been nicer or more apologetic and concerned. They want the arm back to evaluate it and are sending a UPS pickup tag. Also, I saw some comments that we "cheaped out" on this arm. First of all, there are not a lot of places to buy Corvair arms, Speedway and Total Performance are the only two I know of. Secondly, my Son has spent in excess of $ 20K in parts on this T and virtually every part is new or totally rebuilt. I would not let my Son drive around in a marginally safe car, I love him too much for that. If you could do that for me I think it would clear up some questions some members had, and I would appreciate it. Also, please thank the members who had nice things to say and who offered their comments about being happy I wasn't hurt. I appreciated those comments. Again, welcome to the forum and I hope you stick around.......lots of nice people here and we love all kinds of cars, not just rats. Don
$85 isn't exactly a "cheap ****" price to pay. It's just that NOTHING but cheap **** or potentially bad parts are ALL that is available any more! I'd like to know who chromed it and maybe didn't post cure it? Did it come chromed already. Did anyone say it was a forged part? Did the seller say it was cast? (sure looks cast)
Sending the failed parts out to an independent testing facility for failure ****ysis would be a good start. Pulling the product in question from the shelves,and having them tested by an independent testing facility would be a good start. Should be able to bend them up like a pretzel,no problem.
Chrome plated parts need to be baked within 3 hours to remove Hydrogen Embrittlement,IIRC.There is a Mil Spec for this. Not all parts will be subject to Hydrogen Embrittlement, but it might be a possibility in this case. ---- "Cast" and "forged" must mean the same thing in some places. "Just grind off the parting line,and nobody will even know."
I pray that Speedway has contacted everyone that they sent these cast pitman arms to and offered a refund or tell them they are unsafe. Only forged steel or billit steel pitman arms should be used They may bend depending how they are used, but should never fracture.
Has anyone seen any do***entation to say what these arms are made of? Fatigue failure in a forged part can look surprisingly brittle. I hope we get to hear the rest of the story.
I think someone here is an Engineer specializing in Materials Failure. So he could figure out what happened,no problem. Of course,I don't remember who.
Don I got a link into your build site and have been reading your build on your T and your sons projects. I watched you guys junk an entire frame because you didn't like the quality of the work.I would never have visited that site had I gone through anything but a link to your build .Theres no way in hell you cut any corners in any of those cars !and they sure as hell aren't RAT RODS! very far from it in fact these guys saying you are using cheap junk parts don't even know what car is involved ! And where in any of these catalogs does it say this part manufactured in China or anywhere else for that matter!You and your sons do fine top quality work
I see cheep wrenches all the time from India and so forth, they say forged on them, but I and others think they just drop the part on the forge and pick it up and put it in the box, Droped forged!
I say ********. Speedway may be held liable for the goods that they sell. Turning a blind eye to faulty components does not exonerate them from liability if the parts fail in their intended use. I would love to see how a judge would interpret that disclaimer if someone actually tested it in court. Someone could make a helluva good case against them. These disclaimers are NOT a catch all to protect parties from negligence. Imagine if a company tried to put a disclaimer like that on tires....
Forged yes! billet?... what type of steel? Pitman arms are made from High Tensile or Complex Alloy steels. Forging refines and aligns the grain in the steel part, increasing the density and strength. A part made from billet wont be as strong but much better than cast. See my other posts on forged vs. cast. Think of the stresses involved when you turn your steering wheel, thousands of tons of pressure and force are bought into play. Failure is not an option, thankfully no-one in this situation was injured. Yes, forged parts are much more expensive than cast, and theres a reason for that (you don't get to recklessly play in traffic). Looking at the photos I can't tell what the metal is, cast iron usually has a silvery colour to the fractures, I can tell the grain structure is huge= weak, I am a blacksmith, not a foundry man but I am worried at how dark the broken end is. I don't know what metal would look that dark.
That's frightening. I seriously question how well a ridiculous waiver of liability would hold up in a court of law. Since Coker is an alliance vendor here, I'd like to hear his side of the story if that's true.
With out a doubt that it's a import from china. I hate to say it but not much is made here............
The Jalopy Journal
