Pontiac used the Buick version of the aluminum block in 61-62 Tempests, not the Oldsmobile. They put their own cast iron V8 in them for 63 (first use of the 326 cubic inch displacement). The Z87 (street four barrel version of the four banger) in my Lemans convertible might have idled a little rough compared to my V8s, but the little bugger was pretty torquey when you got it wound up a tad. You stated your four has even compression, once you make sure the ignition is up to snuff, that there are no vacuum leaks, and the idle circuits are functioning correctly and adjusted right, it should give a reasonable idle. GM designed these cars to ride softly and the swing axles don't like it. Decambering the rear end by lowering the transaxle down on it's mounts with spacer blocks (resulting in some negative camber static) and the addition of a Z bar will transform the handling, especially if you add a decent sized front stabilizer bar to the front in conjunction with good shocks. If you wanted to pursue that line of thought even farther, with the transaxles being Corvair based, I can't help but think eliminating the swing arms by adapting the rear suspension from the 65 and later Corvairs would be an idea worth trying.
Unless you want to spend some big dollars on a whole new driveline/rear suspension, stay with the 4 banger! That is just a corvair powerglide back there. In high school I had a buddy with a 326 tempest and he kept a transmission shop profitable with that thing. It ate axle shafts and intermediate shafts. The 4 banger is a strong little motor and a few speed parts will wake it right up.
I must've had that Z87 engine/4sp. and I used to spin the tires through first and squeek 'em in second gear on a fairly regular basis, never had a problem, did they make HD/SD versions of those halfshafts?
+1 on the half shafts. We got my buddies high school beater Pontiac wagon slightly stuck on a tractor path in the middle of nowhere. Rocking back and forth was actually helping until the halfshaft gave up. To this day I have no idea how the halfshaft breaking managed to start a fire in the weeds under the transmission. No major damage, just a long walk in those pre cell phone days. That car lived for quite a few years after that and suffered much abuse happily. Thanks for the reminder. Good times.
i currently have a 62 olds with the 215. i actually just got rid of an extra one i picked up, took it to the scrap yard and tossed it. they are cool cars and people get confused when they take the first look. i do believe a lot of the body parts of the corvair will fit on these too, like windows and window trims.
Man those are cool cars. I really can't add anything except that if it were mine, I'd probably be seriously considering ditching the swing axle and automatic for the solid axle out of a Catalina and a 4-speed. -Dave
I would get it running good and drive it as is. But if I really wanted to modify the car I would start out by converting to a solid rear axle with a 57-58 Pontiac / Olds rear and ladder bars/coil over. Either hop up the 4cyl , edelbrock head, 389 crank to use a v8 camshaft, use a good v-8 intake and cut the other side runners off. Or just put a 455 in it.
If you want go to the late (67up) heads (or aluminum E heads) in hopping up the four, remember it needs an overbore and 400 style pistons just like the V8s. Converting to a V8 would most certainly mean transmission tunnel work to accommodate a conventional transmission unless you wanted to try adapting late Corvette transaxle parts and pieces along with the accompanying IRS. Going to a Muncie 4 speed shouldn't be to challenging for an already stick shift car, but finding an overdrive 5 speed to handle the torque of a big Pontiac would. In the automatic realm, I'd lean to a T350 or a T200R4 suitably modified to handle it. In either case the 8.8 out of a Fox bodied Mustang might be the most narrow and easiest rearend to adapt.
at the time I never thought of it nor had the skills to accomplish it but using a Corvair rear transaxle and suspension from a 65 or later corvair sounds like a damned good idea!the 65 up chevy parts are a lot beefier than what the Pontiac came with I would almost bet that the rear spindle carriers could just be swapped in from the Corvair and mabey the half shafts could be bolted up to the Pontiac transaxle the trans and rear internals are the same as full size GM units the Corvair engine turns opposite a front mount engine.A regular bell housing can be bolted up to the forward end of a corvair box the input shafts are different between the 2. The Pontiac Tempest drive shaft housing bolts on in this manner
The 66 and later 4 speed Corvair transaxle is much stronger than the earlier one by virture of using the same Saginaw 4 speed as it's rear wheel drive counterparts. This was the transmission of choice for the Crown V8 conversions. They offered the parts for modifying the differential to a four pinion (spider) configuration. I've seen pics of them used behind big block Chevs, although I've never heard how long the transaxle lasted with one. As has been explored on Hamb threads before, modifying the countergear of the Saginaw transmission itself for four rows of needle bearings instead of the two rows GM provided stock might even keep it's smaller than a Muncie gears alive behind the torque of a 400 or 455 Pontiac.
I think I know the one you are talking about it used to set over at Lancaster and 35, or around there. It was a 62 and had a 421 in itsomeguy tubbed it making it like a prostreet car.
Thats the car .. I have not been over by there for awhile but, it was way to nice of a car to sit outside I would not call it pro-street ..I'd call it fast, seen it in Vernon a few years back ..it hauled ass
Sweet little car! I had a 63 Lemans a few years ago, I drove everyday. It was a fun car. I like the idea of the log manifold, or 421.
When I was in high school back in the stone age our auto shop had four of these motors with finned aluminium valve covers , 4 barrel carbs, and I believe 421 Super Duty heads that were donated by Nichols and Goldsmith racing team. I had a friend who had a 63 Lemans with this motor with 4 barrel, 4 speed.
For what it is worth, Dan La Grou at D&D Fabrications says Pontiac used the Olds version of the 215. http://www.aluminumv8.com/tech/tech.htm
Most of the transaxle parts in the Tempest were different than the Corvair. About the only thing they shared was the PG. The V8 Tempests had 4 spider gear diffs from the factory. Even the 4 cyl rear was stronger than the Corvair as it had a bigger diameter R&P.
1961 Motors manual says "See Buick Special Chapter for Service Procedures on V8 Engine" ... The only real difference between the Buick version and the Olds was the cylinder heads, anyways. I'm looking at the diagram for the Powerglide now and it's really interesting, the driveshaft goes all the way through the transaxle to the converter hung behind the wheels, and the torque is then transmitted back through into the transmission via a hollow shaft that rotates around the rope shaft. It looks like maybe a third hollow shaft then transmits the power into the pinion on the differential. It's the kind of thing they aught to have a rotating cross section cutout display in a car musem so you can see it working to believe it. The rope drive can be made to live behind a V8, the factory test mules for this setup were 4000-lb '58-'59 Pontiac sedans. You'll notice the design of the '61 shares a lot of styling cues from a '59 - the grille, taillights, and even the double fins (rounded off on the Tempest). The transaxle is the weak spot, as noted, if you can adapt the later Corvair unit in there you'd be golden. Motor wise, any 61-64 block aught to be a bolt-in -
Wow, this thread keeps going like the Eveready bunny. I remember reading somewhere that the four speed was not offered behind V8s, if you wanted a stick you had to take a three speed.
That is a cool car. I have only seen a few of them and really checked out the last one. The transaxle and 4CYL are very neat IMO and I would not change a thing other then some performance upgrades. Loving that wagon also Killer-D!!
Oh yes they were . the 4 cyl 4 bbl 4 spds are VERY desireable as well. as posted on page one check here. ALOT of infohttp://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=427
I do not know about the 4 cylinders but the 326 was only available with a 3 speed stick or 2speed auto. Pontiac used the olds 215 not the buick.
"According to what I can find" I was going by what I found in a quick lookup in a '66 Motor's manual which did not list any engine codes for the 215, 326 or the 4 cyl with a 4 sp. I then looked in an old trans gear catalog and they didn't list a 4 sp for 61-63 either. I thought I remembered 4 sp trans with both V8 and 4 cyl in Tempests 61-63 I just could not find a reference that stated that. On pondering I can't see why GM would offer a 4sp in Corvairs in 61 or so and NOT have it in the Tempests. I knew the drag Tempests with 326s had a 4sp and I'm sure the 421 semi-factory drag Tempests ran 4 speeds. I wonder if you could get a 4 spd in the Buick or Olds 61-63 versions of this body style which did not have a transaxle?
The buick and olds V-8 cars; including the turbo charged jetfire olds, were available with 4 speed trannies.
I just read thru a bunch of posts on the web site posted above for the early Tempests. From what I read it looks like only the 4 cyl came with the 4sp. The drag cars had factory made 2+2=4 sp transmissions made from two 2 sp automatic trans.
You are right the V8 Tempest at least in 63 came 3 speed or PG only but the 4 speed unit could be swapped in.I never had any trouble with anything but the stupid solid half shafts in my 326 PG car
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