is a "GREEN" (environmentally speaking)hot rod possible??

Saw an article in the New York Times from '98 about global warming, oh yeah, it was from 1898. How can CO2 be a pollutant? It seems pretty silly to me. It's ALL about control.

 

Not only is this thing old fashioned,the concept of the forklift gas mixer is about 15 years obsolete. Performance cars have been running LPG with injectors for years now.The italians came up with the idea years ago so that LPG is an option besides diesel or petrol.
Then again,i suppose you could say he's going the retro route by using a 1950's design mixer instead of 2007 injection for his propane.

perfpormance wise you can't beat propane,it has an octane rating around 140 RON. Which means 12-1 compression is perfectly feasible. The are quite few propane Rods in OZ and in the UK to i understand. It was cheap ( 36 cents per liter) until the oil companies realised they were missing out on a profit stream and have been pumping up the prices ever since. The stuff Burns so clean that engine oil never seems to get dirty and looks clean for months. Biggest disadvantage is the lack of 'range'. I have a mate who runs a 383 on it,and finds he only gets around 60-80 miles on a medium size tank.

 

Biggest problem you find is that there is competition for used cooking oil.Why do think Mc dicks have their oil drums chained down?. people steal the stuff to make Diesel. Diesels were designed to run on Vegetable oil from the beginning, Rudolf Diesel invented the engine so it could run on any sort of oil made from seeds etc . Diesel Fuel as we know it came a lot later . So it's no big deal to run any Diesel on the stuff. I have seen Toyota Hilux Diesels running on coconut oil on Bouganville Island and I've run my old mercedes 300D on used cooking oil from my own shop. You can add your used engine oil to the fuel tank to save even more money if you are that way inclined.
Animal fats produce more power than vege oils too BTW.

 

I wondered if you could burn used engine oil, be nice to have a way to get rid of that crap, the guy I knew with a waste oil furnace moved away -

 

The latest interstate SEMI's here in OZ have a system where the main engine is running a sort of oil tank like a dry sump. This tank uses a small computor to feed the engine oil to the fuel tank so all the driver has to do is keep topping up the main reservoir. Oil change intervals run into the hundreds of thousands of miles between services.
To,me it means that expensive fuel pumps and injectors get a better shot of lubrication which has to make them last longer.

 

It's to bad Bio diesel is a joke, it works fine for the small group of hippys that use it in there jettas but for the whole wold it would never work.
Try running that shit throu a cat 3406 it gives it about as much power as an old detroit 6-71 climbing a hill, and the first diesel engine rudy made was external cumbustion and ran on coal dust.

 

Cummins has been doing this for a while, large fleets like it couse it cuts down time for services.
engine oil in the fuel pump and injectors is bad, the amount that these systems burn is very small and has no lubrication factors

 

here an interesting story about diesel. http://www.allpar.com/ed/biodiesel.html

 

I run bio-d in my 8,000 pound ford, and towing a 15,000 pound fifth wheel you still can't tell the difference. I get slightly lower mileage out of the bio than out of dino-d, but that's about it.

It's not a final solution, but it's cheaper around here, has higher lubrocity and doesn't smell nearly as bad as dino-d. If it really had no power, Bio Willie wouldn't be doing so well.

 

From Willie's website:

7. Is BioWillie® less powerful than diesel?
No. Although B100 is 115,000 BTU / Gallon, compared to PetroDiesel’s 130,000 BTU/Gallon, BioWillie's elevated Cetane value, which enables the fuel to burn hotter and more completely, results in similar power levels being converted by the engine compared to petroleum diesel.

 

bio diesel cant be graded in a cetane rating it only applies to petroleum based diesel fuel, you dont rate ether in octane
bio diesel manufactures and additive companys will throw around the word cetane to sell there product.

 

Might wanna tell that to North Dakota State University and the USDA, the University of Wisconsin and the Department of Energy among many others.

 

I'm down with Jeem. Some opinions have been stated here as fact. Back it up.

Think what you will about Al Gore, but he's brought an awareness to an issue that will hopefully spark a movement to be more conscious of the environment.

Enough of this tree hugger shit and just because the other inhabitants of this planet aren't doing there part yet doesn't mean we (as in Americans) are exonerated of our responsibility.

Hot rodders should do what they can within their capability. A green vehicle is totally possible. Some have a well tuned vehicle. Others have a vehicle equipped with modern computer contolled fuel management systems. A few are catching on to alternative energies. Regardless, we all recycle.

We can all do more in other areas to reduce our consumption. Just think about the holidays. Look at the pile of packaging that's left over after your kid's tear through their gifts? Is that necessary?
They've been focusing on lead in our toys. Why can't the focus be shifted to packaging as well? It's just as damaging (and @#$% mind numbing).

So, then. to answer the question: Yes. It is possible. It is by the nature of what we do. However, efficiency is the key. How efficient our hot rods are depends upon our skill levels and our awareness.

Most of us are vaguely aware, we just don't give a shit.

 

I haven't read all coments so appologies if I'm redundant.
Did you hear about the study/audit that reported that , by the time all the part have been shipped (literally) around the world a Toyota Prius costs close to double to built than a Hummer H2. Talk about your carbon foot print.
In an answer to the topic question, No, not a "traditional" Hot Rod, unless, maybe an early 'T' 4 banger type is meiserly on gas.

 

All these organizations have agendas, if i put gasoline in a diesel engine acroding to them it would have a cetane rating.
The only way to compare diesel and bio diesel's kinetic energy is in btu's and calories.

 

look at this car.
http://www.inhabitat.com/2007/12/04...rd-for-eco-friendly-globetrotter-concept-car/

Will we be able to operate our 1930s cars ten years from now?

 

Mercmad is right about LPG injectors being the most efficient way to run propane. This setup won't be quite that efficient, but it will be a closed-loop system with an a oxygen sensor.

A few minor points:

While propane is very high octane, it contains fewer BTUs per gallon than gasoline. The good news is that you can run a higher compression ratio and other tweaks to make up most of the power lost from the decrease in BTUs. Simply swapping a propane mixer onto a gasoline engine will result in a significant loss of power--the engine really needs to be built with propane in mind.

Also, I wouldn't describe the mixer in the photo as a "forklift mixer," exactly. I bought it from Ak Miller about five years ago. It's an evolved version of the mixers he ran at Bonneville back in the day.

 

the pacific institute researched the hummer vs prius story and tore into it due the fact that the average Hummer H1 is assumed to travel 379,000 miles and last for 35 years, and the new Hummer to go 207,000 miles in its life,while the average Prius is assumed to last only 109,000 miles over less than 12 years.that report is here
i recommend it due to other parts they talk of as well on the issue of car production and environmental concerns.
waste of perfectly good steel, thats what i think of the hummers since GM has been disguising suburbians as hummers

my father worked for a corn starch/syrup company back in the 90s and they tried out the feasiblity of ethanol. it wasnt cost effective to to make it then and without federal subsidies now, it's still not cost effective.
in the new hot rod one of the news stories is about a guy building a "green" street rod to run on propane. i think its a 32 roadster, i could be mistaken.

 

at my great grandfather's dealership, they'd put the used motor oil from oil changes in the heating oil. i said upon hearing this
"wouldnt that make the place smell like oil...oh wait, garage, never mind" lol

 

Yep, thanks Bob.

It runs on hydrogen gas. Hydrogen can be produced by electrolizing water. I don't think the average guy will be messing with it anytime soon. The hardest part would likely be the storage and refueling. Running an engine on hydrogen gas would involve gaseous fuel injectors, an aftermarket EFI setup, and trying to tune it so it doesn't backfire. For hydrogen gas to burn clean in an internal combustion engine it's run at 50% stoich, which means half the horsepower. If not burned lean, the heat of combustion will produce lots of NOx.

I'd like to know also. I'd like to be there when they go racing. I believe there's gonna be a TLC or the like show on it after it races. I do know it's got Quantum Technologies' gaseous hydrogen fuel injectors, a 10,000 psi hydrogen gas storage tank, and high and low pressure regulators.

http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_5115954

Thanks,
Kurt

 

Just curious Jesse, what kind of "green" energy are you using to extract the hydrogen?

 

If you haven’ heard of the Motorhead Messiah, Jonathan Goodwin, let me introduce you: he hacks cars for a living, and he can get 60 mpg out of an H3 Hummer while doubling the horsepower and cutting emissions in half. Unbelievable? Yes, but this is no joke, and it’s doesn’t defy the laws of physics either. The hacked H3 is a hybrid with the gasoline fuel system removed. In its place, Goodwin installed a biodiesel-burning jet turbine to recharge the electrical system:

Goodwin leads me over to a red 2005 H3 Hummer that’s up on jacks, its mechanicals removed. He aims to use the turbine to turn the Hummer into a tricked-out electric hybrid. Like most hybrids, it’ll have two engines, including an electric motor. But in this case, the second will be the turbine, Goodwin’s secret ingredient. Whenever the truck’s juice runs low, the turbine will roar into action for a few seconds, powering a generator with such gusto that it’ll recharge a set of “supercapacitor” batteries in seconds.This means the H3’s electric motor will be able to perform awesome feats of acceleration and power over and over again, like a Prius on steroids. What’s more, the turbine will burn biodiesel, a renewable fuel with much lower emissions than normal diesel; a hydrogen-injection system will then cut those low emissions in half. And when it’s time to fill the tank, he’ll be able to just pull up to the back of a diner and dump in its excess french-fry grease–as he does with his many other Hummers. Oh, yeah, he adds, the horsepower will double–from 300 to 600.

Power and Efficiency? The notion seems contrary to everything we’ve seen from the auto industry in the last 20 years. But Goodwin is disproving the ’status quo’ by concrete example, the Hummer hybrid being one of many. He’s gotten 100 mpg out of a Lincoln continental and developed a bolt-on kit for diesel engines that doubles fuel economy and reduces emissions by 80%. Goodwin’s a model iconoclast, with a love for the environment and big vehicles.

So Goodwin decided to prove that environmentalism and power could go together–by making his new lemon into exhibit A. First, he pulled the gas engine so he could drop in a Duramax V8, GM’s core diesel for large trucks. Diesel technology is crucial to all of Goodwin’s innovations because it offers several advantages over traditional gasoline engines. Pound for pound, diesel offers more power and torque; it’s also inherently more efficient, offering up to 40% better mileage and 20% lower emissions in engines of comparable size. What’s more, many diesel engines can easily accept a wide range of biodiesel–from the high-quality stuff produced at refineries to the melted chicken grease siphoned off from the local KFC.

Goodwin’s endorsement of diesel engines makes sense, and he has a 3-part plan to wean the nation from gasoline. First, aggressively mass-produce diesel passenger vehicles. Converting just 1/3 of our nations passenger vehicles and light trucks to diesel would eliminate Saudi Arabian oil imports. Second, start producing diesel-electric hybrid cars, the holy-grail for biodiesel enthusiasts. After reading this article I’m convinced it’s possible (the whole ‘diesels are too heavy argument’ is ridiculous). And third, produce hybrids with a dual fuel mode, such as hydrogen or propane injection. I’ve heard of propane injection, which shoots a small amount of propane into the combustion chamber along the diesel fuel, increasing mileage, horsepower, and decreasing emissions.

“Detroit could do all this stuff overnight if it wanted to,” he adds.

 

Algore has found a way to increase his bank account.
www.junkscience.com

 

I think the question posed in this thread was...
"can a hot rod be "green", aka pollution free"?

I'm so fed up with the news every night on TV and am so disgusted over what is going on in the world that I look to the HAMB as a place to go to talk about hot rods, performance and ingenuity.

Can we leave our politics elsewhere?

 

ANY fuel can have a cetane RATING. Only dino-d has CETANE. The RATING has to do with the combustability. The rating simply compares the difference in the fuels. Or are you saying that bio-diesel is not a fuel?

 

I just paid $2.00 a tire to properly? dispose of about 300 tires..the tire recycling plant a couple of miles down the road was already out of business after a few years..their market for rubber bits to made into parking bricks, park benches,2X4s, whatever, had dried up from lack of retail sales I guess..theres gotta be a market for this stuff..one of you guys ought to be smart enough to figure this out..turn that mountain of rubber bits into new tires?..I'd buy some...I'm seriously looking at a biodiesel powered VW Rabbit Pickup as my next runabout/parts chaser, I'll just make sure I turn the AC off when I;m trying to merge onto the Highway...I will continue to proudly cruise my 500+ Caddy engine, probably the biggest guzzler on the planet...

 

so heres a little chart to figure out the cost of running, not building, an electric vehicle compared to a gas vehicle, nothing will ever replace the smell, sound, thrill of a gas powered hotrod ever, but i think there is a place for a cool hotrod style ev.

 

Hot Rodders are the original recyclers.

That and we take inefficient engines and turn 'em into efficient machines.

 

Electricity(electrolosis)

 

Interesting thread, I just went to CA to pick up a 35 year old car that will get close to 40 MPG when I get it running again. Automakers can make efficient cars, they just don't. I think the early 70s Civic got close to 50 and they can be made to go like a raped ape too.

On the way home I saw almost no old cars on the interstate (lots on the side roads in CA thank god). I was thinking "yea, scrapping old cars is the stupidest idea ever. They contribute virtually nothing to pollution compared to all these SUVs."

Hot rods are definitely not a major problem for pollution, greenhouse gas etc. so sleep good and drive happy.

I'm with Squirrel on this one, making a new car is much more destructive than keeping an old one running.

If you really want to save the world, stop buying so much crap down at Wal-mart that you don't need or will only use once or twice before you toss it out.

Maybe that will slow down the rate at which the Chinese buy up our old "scrap" too.