is a "GREEN" (environmentally speaking)hot rod possible??

^
know that my grandpa, his brother and some of their buddies were building a turbo'd flattie after the war, for a belly tank.
grandpa had a major fascination with turbos, and had used them on a couple cars in the mid 50s... if he was doin' it, there MUST have been others... so i'd say it's not entirely non-traditional, so not entirely off topic to the forum.


my OT (but pretty "green", as it's ~25 years old, and well re-used) daily driver is turbo'd, running E85... it's an addictive fuel. emissions test was super clean, too...

 

****Bio-diesel****
is HELLA easier than it's made out to be.

The VERY FIRST diesel engine at the 1911ish(?) "World's Fair" was run off of PEANUT OIL. The diesel engine's initial design was formed so farmers could GROW their own FUEL.
However, petreoleum was SOOO gosh-darned cheap at the time the idea never caught on,
and the entire idea was basically driven underground, so the "gas companies" wouldn't have to compete...

Now, fast-forward 100 years and wether you want to admit it or not, we've got a serious problem on our hands
(that whole "pollution" business, global warning and whatnot)

So, down to the bottom line:
You can run a diesel motor, damn near ANY diesel motor,
on VEGETABLE OIL, "bio-diesel", "farm-diesel".

Now, veg oil is THICKER than diesel (buy the thinnest oil you can find), so as far as cold starts, etc., but usually you can mix up to 1/2 a tank with no significent drawbacks. It's good to "build up to" the 1/2 tank mix-
(start it off easy baby, no more than a quarter)

Oh, and for the hippy environmentalists,
or,
maybe just the people who want kids and to continue society,
soybean oil is by far the WORST, as far as pollution goes. Then, there's the whole "bonus points" round about how they are removing rainforest for the land to grow the soybeans, yea.

So,
EVENTUALLY I'm dropping a diesel motor in my custom,
Runin' a TRAILER HITCH
And I'll be towing my CAMPER where I'm goin', not my RIDE,

 

All hot rods are way, way, green. If you assume the enviromental damage of making the hot rod's pars are sunk costs, and add up all the enviromental damage it does to make a Prius, the Prius turns out to be a stink bug.

 

one thing I love about diesels, anything that's flammable and oily will make 'em run!!

on the rainforests...don't forget the other half of the rainforests being cut down by drug lords for coca fields...mostly to supply our celebrities and athletes, whose lives are so difficult they need drugs to escape reality, who our culture holds as gods...you know, the celebrities that do public service announcements and environmental non-profits. life's a bitch, ain't it?!

 

I hate to say this, but every hot rod I've ever owned has leaked oil and ran rich. None of them would ever pass smog, they sucked gas and consumed plenty of new parts. I agree, recycling is something we do, but realisticly there are very few hot rodders out there that have their shit dialed in. I've smoked dual carb supercharged cars before on the street, simply because they weren't running right. It takes total focus and hard work to get a handbuilt car right on the money, and most folks in the culture simply don't do it. They are hobbyists.

That being said, the true hot rodders have a unique opportunity here to really do amazing shit with all the ingenuity, resourcefulness and junk parts we're so bent on. I think I'll make this new car of mine a super light weight, pure electric single seat commuter. I realize there will be some problems, but thanks to this thread and some good web searching I've got a clear direction. Many thanks guys!

 

Nice link klemmy, the rest of the uninformed should read it! I guess we all can believe want we want to believe. Seems like the rodder crowd would be the place to embrace change, not be afraid of it. Isn't change, modification a big part of rodding? If there were to be a home grown movement toward new ways to move vehicles, it would be here. I'm even think'in about electrifin my 32 Woody!

 

you know that'll never happen! that is so un-American to not be lazy!

 

Read R&C from the early 70's and this whole Fuel thing was discussed then.Hot Rod published letters from readers worried about not being able to buy fuel and Isky came out with a Mile-a-mor cam which was supposed to save fuel.
Today we have a worse problem,Global warming is happening NOW,not in Al Gores fevered imagination as the nay sayers will have us believe. Studies of the CO level in the atmosphere have been conducted in hawaii since 1958 ,the oldest known such tests. And these tests have demonstrated that CO parts per million have risen from 368 to over 398 in that time. It's enough to change our climate . Other climate change data is collected in a site in skandinavia and the actual site is in danger because the ice shelf on which it stands is dissapearing .

And we have done it. It has happened in less than 50 years ,a thing which took 50 million years to establish.

What is also very bad is the use of vegetable crops to grow fuel Corn farmers in the USA are being paid billions to produce corn for one reason only. To prove GWB's green credentials.
As the rest of world begins to suffer because of rising food prices,the motorists of the USA will now feel comfortable because they run a tiny percentage of alchohol in their fuel.
America was forced into ratifying portions of the kyoto agreement ( a strange shonky sort of thing at best) when it was shown that USA is the worlds worst polluter and growing green crops is making it worse.
Here is a rodder doiung just that,makiung corn alchohol to9 fuel his rod... i rest my case.

 

Fuel Made From Our Food Sources

Will Be The Factor That Ends Mankind.

I Got One Up On All You All

I Have Already Slowly Been Getting Accustomed To A Steady Diet Of Vasoline And Diesel Fuel.

I Will Repopulate The Earth.

 

mercmad, if this place has been developing and growing for 50 million years, do you really think a fluctuation in a 50 or 100 year period will really be able to wipe us off the map? I'm not saying to disregard the environment by any means but I don't believe the human race is actually capable of doing as much damage as some would like us to think. for one, just the volcanoes in the last few decades have released many times more harmful pollutants and harmful gasses into the atmosphere than our industrial revolution...why isn't that taught in any school or statistics? because it's an inconvenient truth to some peoples' political and financial agendas.
last time I checked, E85 is 85% ethanol. I've always been told that 85% is more than a tiny percentage; it's still more than an overwhelming majority.

as far as the farmers go, would you rather have the gov't pay farmers to plow their crop under or do you think it'd be better for the gov't to supplement/help farmers for growing crops for fuel? last time I went through science class, I was told plant life creates oxygen far better than a plowed field. annnd...quite a bit of the bio-fuel has cleaner emissions

I'm a little confused as to how our 'global warming' (natural climate fluctuations/cycles) can be attributed to GWB and farmers.

what have you done personally to combat this global warming you speak of, other than speak out against general industries and political parties? it seems to me your 3 vehicles listed in your profile are not very emissions friendly or fuel efficient.

 

Bio Diesel Will End The Human Race

There Will Be No More Steaks B/c Cows Are Fed Corn Based Food.

Thier Will Be No More Corn On The Cob.

Our Pets Will Starve.

Fuel Made From Corn Will Be More Valueable Than Actually Eating Corn Based Foods.

 

Why Do You Capitalize Every First Letter? It Is Very Hard To Read... just a thought... kinda hard to read. I like reading.


anyways..

I'd love a SOLAR-powered hot rod, but then I'd have to burn a CD with rumpity rump sounds and buy some big speakers.... and I don't think the whine of an electric motor decelerating would be near as cool as a backrapp rap rap rap....

 

The funny thing here is that corn is not even close to being the best choice crop for fuel. Far more efficient for such purposes is believe it or not marijuana!
Regardless of any of our political beliefs climate change is happening, whether or not you like Al Gore does not change the fact that our atmosphere has been altered resulting in acceleration of this normal cycle. Many posts in this thread had some good information and others had half-truths while others were just wrong.
I come from a science background and the truth is nobody really knows for certain what will happen to our climate in the very near future, but a very large majority of the scientific community is scared, which means we should be as well.
There is no single factor to blame for this, your car has done far less damage on the road than the industry that created it and coal-burning has done far more, the point is most of the damage was already done many years ago and now we will deal with it regardless of any attempts to reduce that which we produce today. All we can do is to hope its not too severe and that we can adapt. The human race did survive the last ice-age.

 

By my understanding of things....corn and bio-diesel have pretty much NOTHING to do with each other. Corn is for Ethanol. Bio-diesel is an organic oil based product. Corn doesn't make much oil. But it does make a lot of high sugary content fliud that is well suited for Ethanol production.

 

why, oh why must you speak of such horrible things? oh the humanity! no steak??????? i care not to live in such a world without steak!

seriously, that'd suck.



the E85 available here: i was talking to a farmer who 'bout lost the farm due to not being able to compete with non-domestic sources.
why the hell does anything need to be grown on the other side of the world and shipped over here?

 

Correct. Soy beans are a popular source for oil to make bio-diesel...which is fine with me, I would rather drive a bio-diesel powered car than eat tofu.

 

Sorry for the caps on every first letter man.

I was trying to capitalize all letters, didnt work, I'll stop trying.

I believe that marijuana seeds and hemp oil could provide us with a viable fuel source.

but

Every time I try to hermaphrodite my babies, and get a bunch of seeds, my shit still turns out to dank.

so i gotta get rid of it to the college kids.

I joke, I joke , I kid.....

 

It takes half a gallon of oil to grow one bushel of corn. Apparantly, fertilizer is made with petrolium...

"I feel like a country dog in the city...If I stand still they f!@# me and if I run they bite me in the ass." - Burt Reynolds

 

Don't start? Apparently some things are beyond analysis or critical thinking.

How much does the windmill electricity cost, including the imputed cost of the windmills?

 

Some years ago I remember seeing a T-Shirt that said roughly - "Hot Rodders are the Original Recyclers".

 

I almost fell out of my chair laughing, thanks!

 

And did you notice how that ice age, and the one before, and the one before that, all warmed up completely without any SUV's, hot rods, big rigs, coal-fired power plants, or anything else man-made or man-related to pollute up the atmosphere? Gee, how did that ever happen? Was it all because of dinosaur farts?

No global warming proponent can ever answer that without talking in circles, because if they answered it honestly, they'd shoot their whole argument in the foot.

The problem is more that it's natural for people to want to follow some kind of religion - and people who don't follow any of the major religions are turning Global Warming into a new one. Complete with the prophet Algore. About the only difference is instead of outright killing the infidel, you tax him to death.

Between the pollution controls on most new automobiles and the steel mills and so many other major industries closed or moved overseas, the air in the US is cleaner now than it was 100 years ago. Yet we're the problem? Pretty soon thanks to the EPA you'll go to jail for 10 years just for spraypainting a rust spot the size of a half dollar in your own garage, but over in China there's so much lead in paint the same clowns have their panties in a bunch that the instant their kid lays a fingertip on some toy painted with it the kid will become as retarded as they are. I know people who used to cast their own lead toy soldiers as kids, and none of them turned out to be drooling imbeciles.

If you want to build a car to be "green" go for it - just don't do it because Al "Chicken Little" Gore says the world is going to end and we have to do something about it now. At least one study was done based on the premise of totally stopping polution now, what effect would that have in 100 years. The answer was it would be around eight tenths of one degree cooler than if we did nothing at all. Unless someone figures out a way to turn down the thermostat on the sun. Not worth me losing sleep or spending extra money and effort to worry about. Let technology progress naturally - 100 years ago cars were barely more than a horse cart with a lawnmower engine, airplanes were in their infancy, and trains ran on steam. Even 20 years ago the internet barely existed and cell phones were the size of a brick. No one can predict what things will be like in 100 years from now. My weatherman on TV can barely get the next 3 days right.

 

we shall see won't we....Global warming is here and now,it's no longer a theory spouted by greenies etc.
over priced food stuffs caused by the USA subsiding it's farmers to grow corn which is ONLY being used to make fuel is resulting in many countries including my own, experiencing rising inflation and food that is not only crap but expensive to boot, is Here now..
But if you you choose to ignore these two things because of your own political beliefs,nothing I say will change your mind as you have made your mind up. I respect that but don't ignore what is happening because of the worlds worst polluter and it's cavalier attitude to the rest of the world.
Don't you think it's a bit strange looking at profiles so you can attack someone? I've got broad shoulders and I have been attacked by women taller than you so a few insuations on web site is just so much fluff to me.
What have I done to contain global climate change? Bought your attention to two facts which might be a start.
instead of attacking guys like Al Gore,ask yourself why he was given a Nobel laureate. It's not a cheapie give away like the oscars and theres no influence by the 4 big oil companies to cloud the issue.
Open your mind to what the rest of us in the world are seeing for ourselves.

Ill just add this; this business of growing vast acerages of corn to make fuel ,and using fuel like diesel to both plow and harvest and then transport the corn ,then use coal or oil powered generating plants to process the corn into alcohol,then using diesel powered vehicles to ship the product to point of sale is returning us to a situation which occured during the time of the horse.
How? .In my mother's grandfathers day,he had several large horses on his farm. several weeks of the year were taken up with plowing and sowing in wheat and oats for the horse team. come harvest,this meant two weeks of really hard work to reap and bind the wheat and cut the chaff . All this just to feed the horses for 10 -12 months in the comming year. In the end people realised that a horse requires fuel when it doesn't work . For 3 months of the year the horses would work just make their own food. When tractors becasme availabler it was realised that the horse was kept for one thing... to make feed for the horse.
Growing corn to make fuel is the same thing. A lot effort is wasted on making a product which because of that involved effort is in fact creating polluton. Worse than just making diesel.

 

It would take a lot of work first you would have to get custom made pistons, mexican hat style or swirl chamber, then you would have heads made to acept injector's, since the block does not have pre cumbuston chambers for the cylinders it wont allow glow plugs, so you would have to have it be direct injection with an intake heater and pecil injectors, the most simple fuel delivery system mechanical injection,non comon rail.
Then there's mounting a pump i would get a bosh inline pump from a 6.9litre international then you would have all 8 cyl, theres no front cover to mount to so you would have to fab up brackets and have it be pulley driven instead of gear.
An electric holley or carter can be used as a lift pump, run some delo and youre good to go, just dont loose prime and be sure to add some fuel/water seperators or racors you dont want to blow youre tips off.

 

Hey Mercmad,

Please don't come on the HAMB and preach your views of global warming. There are significant arguments for both points of view. Neither side will sway the otherside.

Talking global warming is just like talking about what oil you should run and religion and global warming essentially politics.

Let's talk traditional hot rods.

tjm73

 

I rest my case. merc, as stated by you, the only action you're willing to take is 'raise awareness' for other people to change because you don't want to...actually very similar to the cult leader, Algore!

as far as hot rodding goes, my favorite thing in the world is to make an engine run better/more efficiently, if the engine ain't worth it it gets yanked out....the 'better' descriptor rules out gas-electric hybrid setups. if that's what's meant by a 'green' rod, HELL NO! if we're talkin turbo'd oilburners or experimenting with alternative fuels that should be right up our alley

 

Something to check out.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html

 

Let me ask all these Prius owners ONE thing. What bloody good does your gas mileage do turning over 6000 rpm's? (rhetorical). I drive I-83 (PA/MD) everyday, and ride at my cars fuel sweet spot (70-75), with about 30-32 mpg. (turbo Saab). I consistently get lapped by Prius's all the time. I could drive faster but why? Meanwhile these idiots will be the ones to tout their cars gas mileage, rated at like 2000-2500 rpm's, and blow their whole moral asshole soapbox with a heavy foot turning 100 and 5500-6000. Hell at their speeds my 91 Range Rover or 48 Pontiac probably gets better mileage than their Prius, if you average eveything out. One of the biggest problem is how people drive.

As far as the other topic - hot rodding doesn't have to be eco-unfriendly. In fact if you strive to make you engine as efficient as possible, I'd say thats quite friendly. And engine efficiency (for model) is really what the heart of hotrodding is rooted in, isn't it?

Worried about open exhaust and by-product? - run a small compressor, and an air supply line to the exhaust right after the headers. The pressurized supply air will catalyze just like a converte with no effect ofn performance aside from loss to drive compressor.