Seatbelts, car seats, feeling guilty confession

I don't post much but have been lurking for years.

Are you out of your fucking mind? Could you ever forgive yourself for using your grandson as an airbag in the event of an accident?

Fucking Moron....

 

Had seat belts in all my cars including the first . . . a 50 Ford sedan in 1956.

Belts were the very first 'hot rod' thing I put in them.

I only have lap belts in the 32, but have been thinking of going to a factory style roller shoulder harness.
What helps here is the 4 point 2 1/2" OD roll bar.

Strikes me that here's a good tech article for someone to knock out.
Or, if you've already done it post some pics.


One of the local hot rodders gave me a pair of out-dated NHRA approved seat belt, shoulder harness, submarine strap and all the fittings.

Granted, it won't pass inspection.
The idea was to use them for mock-up in the 31 roadster and buy new when headed for the dragstrip.

The date thing with NHRA has always struck me as a BS deal.
Drag race cars are hangar queens to say the least so ultraviolet degradation isn't really a problem.
As long as they pass inspection, no fraying, sharp edges nearby etc. they should be allowed.

Geez the FAA doesn't require seat belt replacement on a date basis.

No reason you couldn't use the nicely constructed race-o belts on the street . . . even if they are out of date.

 

I hate em but I don't leave home without em. Get em!

 

yeah - lose 1 child and see how cool you think it is to say "I will never use seatbelts"

 

Yes, but welding most likely not required.
Even the Race-O belts and harnesses come with a bolt & big washer setup like the aftermarket passenger car belts do.
Drill the floor pan if necessary and install those.

Part of the work involved may not be required depending on what year the car is.

My 61 Ford 4 dr hardtop required drilling the floor pan for the seat belt bolts.

My 62 Ford station wagon had factory installed reinforced threaded plates and aftermarket - or Ford - seatbelts bolted right on with no problems.

I'm not sure about "Child Seat harnesses", but it's common to hold the Child Seat in with the factory installed seat belt.
The child then gets their own seat belt, but you knew that....

 

To be perfectly honest, I thought it was a national law that you must wear seatbelts. Is it state by state or what ? I was told that in Texas all cars / all years, must be equipped with seatbelts.
Regardless, I always wear mine and I have always installed seat belts in every rod I`ve ever built.
To those that say "I refuse to wear a seatbelt" --- That must be one of the most ignorant statements I`ve heard.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think some safety restraints are a good thing (particularly six point harnesses and a well padded roll cage). I wear my seat belts in my modern vehicles most of the time, and my '63 has the seat belt option and I wear those (but I worry that doing so is more hazardous to my health, since they are only lap belts). If nothing else, seat belts are definitely good for keeping you from sliding around.

But this issue is not so clear cut as all the propoganda would have us believe. An improper seat belt system does more harm than good. For example, lap belts without shoulder restraints have been shown to cut into your internal organs, leading to irreparable damage and death by blood loss. And, improperly angled shoulder restraints can break your back or collapse your chest cavity. Plenty of studies to support that these are more dangerous than no seatbelts. How many of you are safety engineers, so that you know that you are not doing more harm than good by improperly installing seatbelts in your old cars?

Also, most seat belt systems will not disengage with weight against them. At least that is true for systems through the Seventies. For example, when you have a roll over and you're hanging upside down the buckle will not release. I know of a guy that almost burned to death when this happened to him, and the car caught on fire. Luckily, a passerby had a knife and cut his seatbelt just in the nick of time.

Now, the U.S. Government is telling us that the high back buckets and head restraints are too soft and do no good. They have to be rock hard, and that is the new legal requirement (effective for all new cars in 2009, IIRC).

And what about air bags? They can kill children and small adults. Think especially about all those women that you know that are 100 lbs and 5 ft. 4 in. They are all at risk of death in even a 5 mph collision when driving a car with air bags, and it is against Federal law to have them disconnected.

OK so you think you need seatbelts. All the arguments for seatbelts can also be said for crush zones, air bags (front and side), roll bars, head restraints, automatic fuel cutoffs, padded dashes, collapsable steering columns, ABS brakes, and myriad of other safety devices that are designed to remove all risk from our lives. Where do you logically draw the line? Some would say that your car is not safe unless it has every one of the devices. An argument could be made, using the logical extension of the thinking that a car is unsafe without seat belts, that unless your car has all the available safety devices, your car is not "safe" and should be taken off of the road. How many of you will be able to pass that inspection when the safety nazis stop you for a roadside inspection? Those days are coming...sooner rather than later.

Oh, and don't forget...no children at all allowed in your roadster, coupe, pu, or rpu since it has no back seat for them.

DonMan, seat belt laws are State laws, and vary from State-to-State. For instance, my State only requires their use on cars that were originally equipped with them.

The seatbelt thing has been hashed out several times on the HAMB. Just do a search.

 

T-Time, wonderful post---Thank you sir.

Our country of drivers is being lulled into a sense of false security with government safety mandates
Me personally......I truly believe there's more time and money spent on legislating safety and law enforcement(read that, writing tickets) than on driver education ---where it could do the most good.

And as far as you guys castigating the original poster by calling him names.........what good does that do? The guy asked a question for cryin' out loud. If he'd rode his grandson in his lap on a riding mower instead of his A, I guess y'all woulda called him stupid for that too, huh?
A trip around the block in first gear....I don't see the harm. I mean , really.

 

Hell yeah. Put them in and wear them. Also, if possible, put in three point shoulder belts in the front. Eating a steering wheel or metal dash isn't fun.

 

If the seatbelts were original equipment, they must be worn. For cars that predate seatbelts, there is no law requiring you to wear them. But common sense should tell you to install and wear them. I am not worried about my driving. It's the stupid soccer mom on the cell phone, yelling at her kids in the back seat and putting on make-up while driving a SUV that I worry about.

 

Is being cut nearly in half, burning to death, or having your lungs collapsed a more fun way to go?

 

Hmm..... let's see. Only shaken up in a collision or laying on the hood of your car, after giong through the windshield? Yea, I think they're a nice thing and use 'em.

 

Do you have a properly designed restraint system in your T bucket? If not, it is not just a matter of laying on the hood vs. only being shaken up. About the only way to "do it right" in a T-Bucket is with a solidly designed roll bar and a quick release six point harness. From the pics you've posted, I don't see that on your car. Remember, this thread is about requiring them or not in a Model A, not whether you use them in your modern vehicles. There's no question in my mind that they should be used in modern vehicles, even given their negatives.

This is one of my favorite topics (it is almost philosophical), and I could discuss it all day (and I have many times over the years), but I'm not going to do that today. I'm just trying to get you guys to think through the propaganda slogans that attempt to keep us all from thinking.

 

I don't always wear them when I'm alone. But if one of the kids ride with me we both buckle up.

 

I read your spiel...and your right on the money!

Problem is...just like the people who mandate TOTAL vehicle safety systems use as the absolute best thing since sliced bread...you too miss the middle ground.

Every accident isn't one that will have the seat belt cutting your liver in two...every accident isn't one that will see you hanging upside down in a flaming wreck.

(What would you have instead? A Michelin Man padded safety suit so the vehicle interior/paved road won't kill you, or vehicles with no body at all so flaming entrapment isn't possible?)

Those two examples of BAD seatbelts make me think what would happen in exactly the same wreck with no belts at all?
Would the people just walk away because they didn't use the belt?
Seems doubtful.
Still...in the case of burning to death...maybe being impaled on a steering column would be an improvement...or getting knocked out and burning to death quietly.

FACT is...in both those examples...you were in deep shit anyway.

Ever see those knives for cutting seatbelts and breaking glass?
A resourceful Hot Rodder could make a solid bracket to mount one I figure...and if using one of those is too complicated after the wreck...then I doubt you were gonna crawl away anyway.

I wear belts and will install and use them in every vehicle I ever build...because the local NEWS has proven to me that they work...not the self rightous safety-mongers.
In MY mind, they will help before hindering in 95% of any crashes I'm likely to get into...and if it turns out that by some fluke being belted in kills me?

Well ain't life ironic...

I'll take the chance!

 

Hackerbill, you are on the money, too. I intentionally stated the extremes, just to get people to start thinking. I'm glad to see that you are thinking.

 

when I first learned I could fly
I was standing up in the back seat of my grand mothers 69 olds.
flew till I hit the metal ? dash board when she slammed on the brakes because someone ran a stop sign , we going slow .
at 5 or 6 years old I thought it was fun !
there was blood every where !
scared the hell out of grandma ! I was use to bleeding by then .
I never have liked them , If I had kids I would strap them in .
or put them in a well padded trunk depending on the kid.

 

C9, I agree with you on the NHRA harness rules, except for one thing. In the Southeast the humidity is rough. I was in Baton Rouge, weatherman said 70 degrees, 90 % humidityand that was at 6:00AM. I found out that their harness rule was made because of that. The harness' self destruct after about 2 years because of it.

 

This is a Video of a Model A Coupe that turned out to be a Death mobile... even though the car is salvageable both occupants died from head trauma!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgaZMSjhpH8


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I've got belts in the roadster even though they'd be of no use if I get her upside down...!

 

well said!!!!!!!!!! there is alot of propaganda over alot of topics. and Most people believe it to a TEE. Idiots on an idiot proofed ride. I do not believe in the seatbelt LAW. nor helmet laws. That is a decsion you should make. not someone else for you.

 

I say put them in... that way you can enjoy the "A" with your grandson... and his mother will be happy...

 

none of my cars/trucks have them, i don't like them...........but then again i don't have kids.

 

3 point belts in everything around here.
Helps in car control ( avoiding jackasses )
Keeps face from hitting metal dashes
Keeps us from flying out of trucks in case of acidents.

There is just to much traffic and to many unattentivive drivers to take chances.

When I hear people say they don't wear seat belts - I remember the saying in road racing about safety equipment - only you know what your worth in an accident.

 

For all the police, firefighters, paramedics, doctors, EMTs, state troopers, nurses, the good people who stop to help after an accident, and the rescue worker who has to pick up chunks of your brain. wear your seatbelt for those people, if you won't do it for yourself.

 

After working in a body shop for over 8 years, I've seen a lot. Seat belts do help. Sure, you may get banged up or bruised from a belt, better than the other alternative in most cases. I wear them all the time, in my Corvair, and they will be installed in wifeys 50 Chevy. With that said, I have seen a few accidents where the person did not wear a seat belt and probably would not be here if they did. Guy in a Saab was going through an intersection, an International Rescue vehicle (ambulance) went through the intersection with lights going and no siren. The Rescue vehicle T-boned the Saab, the driver seat was where the center console should be. Because he was not wearing his seat belt, it threw him into the passanger seat, possibly saving his life. This is a rare case, as probably about 98&#37; of the time, a seat belt does more good than harm.

 

Give me a break!! It was a trip around the block of what I imagine is a residential area in first gear!! Some of you guys act like he was doing 90 mph on the interstate!!

No more dangerous than pushing him around the block in a stroller or riding him around the block on a bicycle.

 

my 60 f-100 does not have them currently, but i plan to install them along with welding in some loop to the seat frame for the newer style child seats. It kills mt 2yr old little girl when i pull out of the driveway without her...she loves daddy's truck.

 

I say dont put them in,my wife needs the work in the trauma unit at the local hospital E.R.....

 

YEAH thats all the nurses need... MORE WORK

 

Agreed.

I believe that you (anyone who chooses) should be able to sign a paper that gives you the right to leave off a helmet or a seatbelt whenever its your life on the line.
It should be personal choice.

Of course, that same paper should also make it MANDATORY that if you end up on life support or severely brain damaged, that you be euthanized by the court, so that your self-inflicted state isn't a burdon to your loved ones.

They have a LIFE too...and looking after you as a vegetable shouldn't be a part of it.

THATS the only part of the personal choice argument that bugs me.
Unless your totally alone in this world...your decisions ultimately effect others.