Seatbelts, car seats, feeling guilty confession

Both UV and Humidity can break down a belt, but one of the biggest reasons the sanctioning bodies have mandated dates is for the SFI findings on stretch. It took me a while to believe it, but I started making some observations to disprove the theory and ended up proving myself wrong.

In a drag racing situation, the belts should be cinched pretty hard. Not lung-collapse hard, but hard enough that there is zero movement of your torso. A lot of racers form a pattern of re-tightening belts in the lanes, in waterbox and at the line. If you try it sometime, you'll realize that the belts can always get tighter without suffocating you. That's where the stretch comes in.

I heard some pretty outstanding claims about how much belts stretch during a head-on at 150+ and it blew my mind. Can't remember the numbers so I don't want to repeat inaccurately.

A lot of it has to do with the belts stretching every time you are in and out of the car. The sanctioning bodies will require it because SFI does... and insurance rates pretty much mandate following SFI.

Will an outdated belt work on the street... of course. But will an outdated belt pass muster with a 6mil insurance claim...

 

IiTS all your choice.i have 57 olds sled and a7 year old thats hung in for 5 years but he sits in the car and Does'nt use like a jungle gym,and i wont drive my cool ride like a idiot. It all comes down to common sense and good luck,Thats life.

 

I'm not trying to knock you, but the examples you've given aren't very good. The one above is for Nascar race cars. The best info there is probably this picture, but I'm not sure it applies to a single shoulder belt:
http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles/nascar_seatbelt_system_tech_inspection/photo_03.html

This one is an abstract that looks to be saying they studied head-on crash cases of both seatbelts and airbags, and just airbags (no seatbelts). It sounds to me like it's saying airbag only causes abdominal and lower extremity injuries, which seems to make sense because the basic airbag in the dash or steering wheel is to protect your head. Without seatbelts the rest of the body is moving forward resulting in injury. The full text isn't available without registering. It does say this in the abstract:

Analysis of the initial data supports the general conclusion that restraint systems are working to reduce many of the head and chest injuries suffered by unrestrained occupants.​

The last one is for "a person of short stature" where their shoulder belt isn't fitting properly.

Thanks,
Kurt

 

Over here in Australia seat belt laws have been in for years and most people wear them(big fines if you don't).I've been wearing them since 1968 and at least twice I'm glad I was.Every Hot Rod has to have them fitted(compulsory part of building a rod)and there have been a few people that are lucky they were.It seems funny that there are people involved in an activity that is derived out of race type background don't want use some of the safety features used in these cars.Bit like indulging in safe sex,some just don't think they have to.Keep on roddin'

 

Propaganda my ass!!

Few years back I worked on a machine that had a ford ranger cab that spun, used to demonstated seat belts, put the dummy in and set it motion. I decided it would be fun to ride in it,, without the seat belt. After the first turn I was ready to get out. There is no way that a human being can keep themselves in the seat during a rollover! That was at the slowest speed.

You Sir,, are a Jackass.

 

damn.... time for me to add seat belts. none of my old cars have them, and i really dont want to learn a lesson over it...

-scott noteboom

 

Yes, they are installed in my convert.

If I was your daughter I would be upset with you, my father, for doing something with my precious son that you KNEW I wouldn't approved of.

 

You can get statistics to say anything you want - it's all how you present it. Here's one of my favorites. In WW1 the US goverenment implemented a "new" piece of safety equipment that was supposed to "help" the soldiers in battle. Shorty after it's implementation the percentage of wounded soldiers went UP drastically, yet inpsite of these numbers they continued mandating the use of this "new" safety equipment.......


It was a helmet - the number of wounded soldiers drastically increased however the number of FATALITIES decreased. Some dufus looking for grant money could twist those numbers anyway they wanted to - in an attempt to make their point.

Back on (more direct) topic. The age of the belts - there are (from what little I know) two materials used - Nylon and Polyester - polyester belts stretch less and therefore last longer than their Nylon counterparts. My new belts for the digger are polyester - they're good for (If I remember right) TWICE as long as the nylon ones are.

Very little in this world is clear cut black and white - make your own decisions for YOU - making them for others - especially kids requires a whole new perspective - that's when "the man" steps in and makes those decisions for us - cause too many of us are too stupid, too lazy, too busy, too forgetful, too whatever. DO I like seatbelt laws - absolutely not. Do I think kids ought to be belted in - absolutely YES.

Going around the block with your grandkid not buckled in - is ENTIRELY WRONG for the reason YOU stated - your daughter would have been pissed. If you can't respect your daughters rules (whether you or any of us agrees or disagrees) then truely you SHOULD feel guilty.

Getting mad at those who have disagreed with you - is really a distraction from the topic at hand.

Sir you were wrong - not because "I" or anyone else determined it unsafe, but because your daughter has - you knew that - end of story.

 

Didn't read bother to sift through most of the responses and read the self-proclaimed "experts answers." Don't feel guilty about it. My 57 has no belts. I think I will throw some lap belts in it at some point though. Do whatever makes you feel better.

 

I don't have them in my old cars if they didn't come with them. My 7 year old daughter rides in them all of the time. I personally don't wear them any time in any vehicle (if a cop is around, I'll fake it). I'll take my tickets when I get them. It should be a person's choice whether to wear them or not, it should not be government mandated. Should we also mandate that you can't eat, drink soda, smoke, talk on the phone, put on makeup, talk, ect. while driving so that you are not distracted. Anyway, my 2 cents which aren't worth much. Just had to vent as this is a pet peeve of mine.

 

Your profile mentions drag racing. Would you do the same at the track?

Thanks,
Kurt

 

"Should we also mandate that you can't eat, drink soda, smoke, talk on the phone, put on makeup, talk, ect. while driving so that you are not distracted. Anyway, my 2 cents which aren't worth much. Just had to vent as this is a pet peeve of mine. "

Yes. Considering the number of people just on this website alone, who have complained or had a bad experience. When people are too stupid to police themselves, then we get or need laws to do it. what a person does that might effect their life is their business, but it should not effect other people.

I thought I was done with this thread last night, but if someone doesn't think you or your passangers odds are better with belts, then you are a dumb ass and a risk taker who needs to be off the street.

 

My wearing or not wearing of a seatbelt does not affect anyone else's rights or safety (like cell phone talking, drunk driving, ect.). I don't see seatbelts on Motorcycles. My car was unoccupied and was hit in a parking lot. My point, shit happens and it can happen any time. Government should not tell me whether to wear a seat belt or not.

 

Don't you think it effects the people who may have to take up the expense of a person who is on life support in a hospital? That care isn't free. Someone picks up the tab, like rising insurance cost and or government care.

It begins to be a nusance seeing someones family begging for money when a tragidy could have been avoided. I'm not making a reference to you or any thing you may have been involved in. I'm just giving my opinion on the subject.

Also, in my opinion, motorcycle riders who don't wear head gear are vegtables looking for dirt.

 

My first driver, first week of ownership, I turned right around a street corner, drivers door flew open, I was falling out. The only thing that saved me was my lap belt, even then it was a struggle. I started also using the factory shoulder harness.
Fast foreward about 5 years, I was living in Alberta, no seat belt laws. I was driving to the store about 4 blocks from home, I had forgotten about my previous experience and was not strapped in. A hot chick (very hot chick) walks out of a store, guy in front of me is distracted and didn't notice the guy in front of him stop. He hammers the brakes at the last minute, I see him braking and hammer on mine. I stop, but the guy behind me is distracted and hits the brakes too late, he hits me at a low speed, maybe 10MPH. I get thrown off of the seat and under the dash, scraped and bruises all over, foot comes off of the brake and I hit the guy ahead. If I had been wearing my belt, I would have come out of this laughing. Instead I have damage to the front and rear of the car and scrapes and bruises all over. Felt kind of stupid too.
Seat belts, always!

 

Now I dont agree with that..... I never said dont wear your belts or that it wasnt safer. Just that making it a law is not acceptable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! at what point do we stop making laws for the dumbasses that "cant police themselves" its already spilling over into the political correctness B.S. Hows this for a law?? All registered cars Shall have Approved Belt restraints SIR's and side impact beams. All cars have 30 days to conform or will lose registation PERIOD. there thats protecting dumbasses too. I suppose we "NEED" these laws too.. Think about the rights you give away because soon you wont have ANY. mabey if belts wernt a law. this theard woulnt be here and "Darwin" would control the population, instead of some do gooder dipshit sticken there nose in other peoples business Worry about your own damn self and the people you know.

There's My Rant and Peave

 

Yea, those days would suck. The sad part is, they're coming! If belts weren't a law, it would be great to see Darwinism in action, but like I stated, insurance goes up, county hospitals end up picking up the tab which comes from taxes. The ignorance of a few, once again effects the many.

Rights? I think I have the RIGHT not to have someones brains stuck in the tread of my tires. It can go both ways. That's one of the problems with the times we live in, people complaining they don't have the right to be a dumbass.

 

For those that wish to put in seatbelts, I took the advice of someone on this post and made a tech of how I did my seatbelts.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=231909

 

Do you think you will feel that you didn't affect your daughter if, diety forbid, she was injured or worse riding in your car not wearing a seatbelt? You seem to be so against not doing what the government has made a law for that you rebel against it just for that reason instead of considering if wearing seatbelts would lessen the risk of serious injury or worse.

Thanks,
Kurt

 

Some of you people keep saying that the government doesn't have the right to tell you to use safety equipment. If you are driving on public roads, they DO have the right. If you want to drive on your own private road with no safety equipment, that is your right. But if you are on the road next to me, and your not wearing your belt and you are in an accident and thrown around inside your own vehicle and unable to contol your car and it hits me, then there is a real problem. A lot of safety features on cars are not only for the safety of the occupant but for the innocent bystanders around them too.

 

All the more reason for the government to stay out of it. There's probably a lot more people than you think that rebel against seatbelt laws because they don't want someone else (government) telling them what they can and can't do. Doesn't make much sense but I think you'd be surprised bythe number of people that probably feel that way.

The child saftey laws are a good thing and should remain because children are not aware of the risks involved and not capable of making an informed decision for themselves.

However, If you are old enough and smart enough to obtain a license and operate a vehicle then you are old enough and smart enough to make that decision for yourself.

As much as a lot of people out there get all warm and fuzzy thinking that the government is looking out for them and has their best interest at heart, the reality is it's all about money. Seatbelt laws are a huge source of revenue for law enforcement and insurance companies. The fact that they increase safety is a convenient coincidence that just helps justify another law.

Look at motorcycles for christ sake! As long as it is legal to strap your ass to two wheels and a engine, and run the speed limit among traffic it should be legal to drive your car without a seatbelt if you so choose!

You can't convince me that someone in a car with no seatbelt is in greater danger than someone riding a motorcycle!

Don't get me wrong I'm not anti seatbelt. Do I wear one? Sometimes I do sometimes I don't, it just depends on what I'm doing and where I'm going. Would I be safer if I wore one everytime I got in a vehicle? Probably so but nobody's perfect.

 

So, how do seat belt laws provide revenue for the police and insurance companies?

It doesn't sound like you're pro or con seat belts, you're just con government?

 

No knock all. I'm glad to see your doing some analysis and thinking. Keep in mind that these were just "for starters"...not meant to be the final word or even particularly on target.

 

Funny how so many that are pro-seatbelt laws resort to cussing and name calling anyone that challenges their paradigm. Think about why that may be.

 

Like I said I think the child restraint laws are a good thing.

If someone asks me if they should wear a seatbelt I would say yes. Does that make me pro seatbelts?

As far as con government, not at all. The government has its place and does lots of good. however, passing laws to protect me from myself should not be its concern.


The problem would take care of itself in time by just enforcing the child safety laws. If you raise a child to wear a seatbelt from the time it's born untill the time it learns to drive gues what...... by the time the child is old enough to drive it will be such a habit that it will most likely continue to do so even though it's not a law. Problem solved no mandatory seatbelt law needed.

Granted there will be a few that probably won't but you're never going to have 100% compliance with anything law or not.

tickets which = higher insurance premiums

 

i have had the unfortunated experience of seeing what lack of seat belts do. from owning a salvage yard and see the blood and skin in the wrecks to actually be behind a older ford pickup on broadway road in phoenix when three little boys standing up in the seat ,one of them opened the door and as he was falling out he grabbed onto his brother which in turn grabbed on to the next little boy and all three tumbled out into the street and the mother ran over and killed one, right in front of us. this is a life changing experince and i have crusaded for seat belts since. like i have said before i could care less if adults were their belts but i go beserk when i see a child unprotected.

 

I'm not getting on either side of the fence on this one, but I do want to re-mark on a couple of things said.

Someone mentioned racing at the track:
I've raced the local track (penwell) from mid 70's till last year. Never had a belt. NOT saying that was right or wrong.

My other point. I have heard as many, if he had been wearing his belt stories as I have He shouldn't been stories.

I seem to re-call a certin Model T that would have been a fatal accident had they been wearing belts. Last week a kid here drove off a overpass, the car fell 20+ feet onto it's roof and flattened like a pancake. Luckly he wasn't wearing his belt and was thrown clear when he hit the guard rail, he walked away. Then who remembers the video on here about a year ago that shows a 55 rolling off the track? The guy is thrown clear and by the time the car stops flipping he is standing watching his car destroy itself.

My point? I don't know... just that this argument could go on forever. But I do want to add I have wonderfull memories of riding down the country roads of farm land Iowa as a kid setting in pop's lap. Un-safe, sure problably. Do I ever wish I was that kid in his lap roaring (what seemed like) down the gravel in a chopped Merc, my Dads hand at the bottom of the wheel, a big grin on his face, and me thinking I was ready for the Indy 500 .... everyday.

Maybe Ryan will tell his tale?

 

Wow, I've read every response to this post and am feeling more guilty now than not (bad grandpa). There are some very good arguments here pro and con - I've taken some lumps by some and given grace by others. I live in a rural residential area and it was 'just' around the block in 1st gear - as was pointed out, stroller speed. I also have a tractor and would probably have run around the property with him on that too but now have reservations (I did things like this with my 3 kids that are now 25, 28, 33). It is a hard decision as to where to draw the line, especially having grown up on a small farm riding on tractors, in towed wagons behind tractors, rope swings from very tall trees etc etc. Should anyone ride in an open car without a rollbar, should there be seat belts for the rumble seat, maybe rumble seats shouldn't be used in case of a rollover? My brother in law was thrown from a sports car at high speed (no belts) and a metal sign post went through his seat right after he was ejected (he broke his pinky finger). My wife (she is also unaware of my round the block cruise - I'm glad the wife and daughter don't frequent the HAMB or this grandpa may get bloodied), said she used to sleep on the rear window package tray (1950's). A few days ago, a local had an accident in SoCal and his passenger mother died in the front seat. The air bag covered her and they didn't find her till the next day at the storage yard when her other family members made a missing person claim (the driver son was out of it in the hospital) - now they are trying to determine when she actually died. Not that any of this justifies my actions, but would have to say Ladycruiser nailed it - my daughter didn't give approval. I always use the belts in vehicles that have them. I did error in saying that none of my older cars have them; my 55 has them because otherwise my 93 year old mother won't ride in it. OOOh, that even makes me feel more guilty.

 

What do the kids (parents of grandbaby) think?

 

Sounds like you're being to hard on yourself, you don't sound like a bad grandpa at all. The fact that you're concerned about it enough to start this post proves that.

I'm all for child safety laws but there are exceptions an occasional trip around the block or down some lightly traveled country road is not the end of the world.

If it bothers you that much come clean with the mom and dad. You might be surprised, the response might not be as bad as you think especially if they remember similar trips from their youth.

I can remember countless trips with my grandpa in his truck sitting in his lap driving, when I was smaller. Then when I got older, riding in the back and even sitting on the tailgate with my feet draggin the road. Somehow I managed to survive. I'm talking country back roads at slower speeds not the interstate.

There is some danger in almost everything we do. A little common sense and a whole lot of luck are the only reasons any of us are here!