Need to prove to inspector that 34 axle is strong!!!

I'm dealing with a clueless engineer in the process of trying to get my car engineered to make it street legal. I'm using a 34 ford axle that was dropped and drilled.

He says he's not sure that the axle is forged?!?!?! haha. And this is the guy that engineers for the entire province...

I need some metalergy specs on that particular axle so he can calculate the added twisting forces on that axle.
Because he tells me that my 351 windsor weighs wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more than a flathead V8.

Please help me stump this number cruncher with some official data!

Thanks guys!
Stevie D.

 

Just give him the weight of the 351 vs. the flathead.

 

http://www.bacomatic.org/~dw/library/txt/engfyi.htm

 

i'm pretty sure that 351 is quite a bit lighter than a flathead...

 

what...no caddy 346?? worthless site

seriously though, great link!!

 

Looks to be about the same to me

Ford 351 Cleveland 550
Ford 351 Windsor 510
Ford 351 Windsor 525

Ford flathead V8 525 (124) 1932 model, integral b'hsg, iron heads
Ford flathead V8 569 (1) ('53 239 CID)
Ford flathead V8 616 (241) "complete with clutch and gearbox"

 

Why would you have to have your car looked at by an engineer to register it? What would an engineer know about cars?

Flatman

 

laughing my mutha farkin arse off!!!! i work in automobile manufacturing so that REALY cracks me up!! some are good but others ar farkin CLUELESS!!

 

just show em this stock Ford axle that Ford twisted to show that it would not break! ...and as for the forging part. can't he tell by the thick line down the top and bottom of the axle that it is forged?? or did you grind that smooth??

 

Ya.. LOTS of sites agree. They are about the same weight. Best to go to the Ford dealer to get offical data. This guy sounds like it's all he'll believe.

Flatman.. provincial rules for non-factory-built (custom frames, heavy body mods, stuff like that) cars.
Usually the guys that come down my end of the province are cool about it. Apparently this one's gotta be skooled.

BTW... Gotta love Cape Breton! Done LOTS of hiking, camping, beach-sittin' and music-listenin' there. GF just moved from Port Hawkesbury to Steep Creek (Mulgrave area). I hope to move there this year (from Yarmouth, 6 hours away.. long distance sucks).
Dubbzilla, we have LOTS of good picture-takin' around here for ya, don't we?

Good luck. PLEASE keep us informed!!!

 

If he's freaking about it being forged, do not tell him it's dropped and drilled. He'll freak about the metallurgical implications of the drop process.

Pretty hard to believe something as physically small as a flathead weighs that much, just goes to show how far thinwall casting techniques advanced over time.

 

If EVER there was a reason to move..........................

 

just take him as many old and new car magazines as you can fit in your trunk and show him how many old I-beams are on the road, driven daily.

 

I'm building this thing as a scratch built car....no original title. The real shitty thing is...in NS no matter if I have a title...as soon as I alter the vehicle from its original state, engine, drivetrain, or whatever, then the vehicle is no longer valid as far as insurance and dmv is concerned.

I know there are a million ways for me to dance around the subject, but I want a fully covered daily driver. I don't want the limits of antique plates and bullshit non paying insurance companies....just in case

I'm still hoping that someone can offer up some hard ford facts on that axle.

Thanks!

 

That's your problem right there.

Either he doesn't know what the fuck he's looking at,
or doesn't want to bother trying to make an intelligent decision.
So he asks you for information you have no way of getting.

Sounds like an unimaginative Resto-Fag.

A simple look at the parting line on the axle will tell him it's forged.
Some quick research online will give him the weight of the motors.

 

Ford dealers don't know shit about the new cars
they are trying to sell.

They certainly would not know the weight of an engine
that has been out of production for over 50 years.

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone at any dealership
that knew what a flathead motor was.

 

I have to deal with the guy...he's the only guy recognized by the province. My car is not final built yet...so I really don't know what will happen when he visually inspects the car. He may pass it?!? But from our initial conversations he's saying it's a bad idea in his mind. I need to be prepared to challenge the decision if he denies it.

The guy says the vehicle with the straight axle is just poor technology...piss poor idea for a hot rod. honest to god. horse and buggy engineering.

He says the biggest thing is that the vehicle will now put alot more twisting force on the axle than it ever seen back in the day, or that was originally intended....during hard turning and hard breaking.

As I said, I just want to be able to show ford data if it even exists on that axle.

Also any official looking drawings explaining that he's wrong would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

 

Get ahold of Bruce Lancaster, here on the HAMB. Read this post

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233835

It looks like he may have the metalurgical data that you need.

 

Good luck with your search. Your guy sounds like a dumb ass, pussy, know nothing, government drone piece of shit. Kind of made me mad to read about it.

 

Put a 4 bar on the front.
Twisting argument solved.

"Poor technology" doesn't mean unsafe,or unreliable.



Just another Asshole with a big Diploma.

 

Dubzilla have you checked out the forum on www.fordbarn.com , or googled the early ford v8 sites. Send a pm to Bruce Lancaster right here on the HAMB, he is always a very useful source.

 

I think you are going tohave a real battle on your hands trying to esll him on a dropped and drilled axle. You may be able to get the dropped axle by him claiming that it was a factory piece but the dilled axle, no way.

Get ahold of Dave Mann of Roadster.com, he may also have some metalurgical data for the ford axles.

If that doesn't work talk with the Design Engineers at Chassis Manufacturing Inc, they design and sell new front axles and I am sure they have some testing data they can share with you.

Better yet talk with the engineers at Bell axle, they sell new dropped axles with drilled holes and ovals. They also offer an Aluminum axle. They must have some design and testing information that they can share with your inspector.

But I think this guy isn't gonna be happy with a dropped and drilled axle. You may have to plan a build with a new axle.

Good luck

 

I think you're going to have to take this inspector out to dinner, or to the local whore house, or catch him in one and blackmail him to get your car passed.
Sounds like he's already made up his mind with that "straight axle is just poor technology" position.
Since he's rejected wha you do have, has he said at all what he would pass?
Damn Bureaucrats...

 

That Piss poor technology is under ever heavy truck in the US and Canada.

 

He said he'd pass a late model s10 with a full fendered car mounted on the chassis.

 

I was looking for that too, maybe they broke the scale! LOL

 

Ya, I guess so in larger areas.
But I guess that depends on the dealership itself. Out here in the boonies we have a bunch of old racers and the like working at the dealership. Ask them about the strength of a straight axle and the weights of engines. They'll either know or know where to look. Most ran them in their dirt-track racers until last year when our track got paved. They took a beating.
The times, they are a-changin'.

 

The basic metallurgy, heat treat, and quench info are in that post; original axle is strongernhell. Jokers in the deck are the drop, as that means original heat treat was destroyed at each end, and...the drop...as that increases the leverage steering and braking apply to the axle at exactly the point weakened by the torch work. To quote Ford engineering (1935), "the twisting moment will be...(force from wheel described at length)...magnitude of resistance MULTIPLIED by the effective distance A of the cranked portion..." A is the dimension of the drop over perfectly straight axle.

So...drop is a double whammy, and on paper looks very bad. In the real world, strength of that steel is so great that Ford axles simply don't make trouble. read the referenced post discussing modern cast vs. Henry forged, and yesterday's axle metallurgy discussion. Drilled holes in web are close to meaningless.

 

Can you not somehow register it without going through this guy.eg Antique Plate, Old Reg. etc. Why not try registering it in another Province to avoid this dork? Then just transfer it over.

 

I don't have any good tech stuff for you, but another tack would be to show him some bonneville coverage. Stresses above and beyond what you would EVER do on his fine streets, right?