NHRA rules meeting

I thought it best if I opened this thread so all comments about the rules would be in one place.

The meeting with Rob Park and Bob Blackwell (NHRA) included Dean Isackson, one of the partners on our car, and myself.

Since Bob is the Division 5 NHRA Technical Director his comments on the rules were of utmost importance. After a brief reading of the HA/GR rules he said some minor changes were needed. The recommended changes are as follows:

1. E-85 and ethanol is considered pump gas.

2. Since the NHRA rules require a sealed fuel tank the hand pump and pressurized fuel tank wouldn't be allowed.

3. Rubber hose in the fuel line can't exceed 12" total.

4. The master electrical cutoff switch must be accessible from the rear of the car.

5. Arm restraints required.

6. Fire resistant gloves required.

Bob was reluctant to make a final call on the rules before he talked to someone at NHRA. He wanted to get clearification on the roll bar requirement before he commited to a final ruling and I'm sure he will look long and hard at the rules again.

The meeting went well and both Bob and Rob understand what we're trying to do and seemed to want to make NHRA tracks open to us. Bob will get back to me on their final ruling.

Ron

 

Looking good, sounds alot like you're heading down the path we did, with some basic and realistic details to address, great to hear they were well recieved, and taken with a open mind, congrats to all involved.

Cheers,

Drewfus

 

Thanks Ron.
Pete

 

That sounds easy,all that stuff we already have to do in Tulsa.

 

how was your photo presention recived and any comment on the aussies .keep up the good work

 

since I was the one who brought up the hand pump/pressurized tank, and since I REALLY want to run that set up, I have two questions--

1) to Ryan- can I run it at Mokan for the H.A.M.B. drags?

2) what is a "sealed fuel tank"?
pretty much every car I've ever worked on either has a vented tank or a vented cap. In order for the air pressure system to work, it has to be SEALED or all the air pressure will leak out.

all the rest of the stuff is easy enough.

 

Thanks guys. I think the brochure with the pictures of all the cars helped. You can thank Rand Man for printing the pictures and mailing them to me.

Although Bob and Rob aren't as old as most of us, they seemed to like the concept and look of the cars. Bob spent the last few days out west certifying top fuel cars so this was the other end of the spectrum, so to speak.

If the hand pump/pressurized tank needs to be operational you could have 2 different caps and fuel supply systems and switch them as required by the track. Even if the hand pump wasn't operational it would look cool as hell and period perfect.

Ron

 

I wonder if I'm the exception to the rule on that around here- I'm "only" 35.

 

I'm not so sure my wife will go in for the man-love thing, but I plan on running the hand pump.

wow, now that sounds gross

I plan on running a hand operated air pressurized fuel system

 

Yeah, you're no more than a snot nosed shin biter. Don't you realise that I don't trust anyone under 60?

MAN, I couldn't resist THAT one ........ . Thanks Moparsled, I always appreciate a good set-up line.


Seriously, I can field that sealed tank question as we had to address it. What they mean is "unable to vent gas out in the event of a turnover". We added a light spring loaded ball-check to our cap, it vents in under "draw" and closes off under pressure. Lots of the cars run a coiled vent tube that simply gives the gas too long a way out to sweat it.

I believe the pressurized tank concept is what they're not comfortable with as it would spray fuel rather than sucking air should it even get pin holed, as would the lines too.

There's no reason you couldn't set up both systems "in series" and switch off a discrete electric pump when you want to use the "hand job". Perhaps add a ball valve to shut it off for NHRA tracks?

 

Sorry....you're an old fart.....I'm 32

Ron - Let us know if you need any more info/photo's etc, here to help.

Cheers,

Drewfus

 

Snot nosed shin biter,I've never heard that one before. I'll have to rember that one. The hand bump will be cool mopar. At least you wont have to worry about the electric pump failing you.
Old6rodder,Dont worry you can trust me dude.

 

what have we here ? dueling birthdays . be 71 28 of feb

 

Mudflaper,Thats old.hahaha Damn not really.

 

Old Farts rule!!!

Recent inductee to the old fart zipper chest club, I'll be 62 on April 7. I'll be able to collect social Security this year!

Good to see progress being made with the NHRA, every little bit helps, and if we can get co-operation in one devision it will surely help out here on the "left coast".

One thing I would like to see is some sort of clarification on welding methods, as I really don't understand why a good strong chassis can't be build with a "stick welder".

If they are going to approve 1950's design, is there a big problem with 1950's technology?

Just wondering out loud.......any others out there who feel the same?

 

I sure dont see anything wrong with a stick welder.
Bob Hindman of the Hornet team is the best stick welder I have ever seen.Everything he builds is with a stick.I have never looked that up in the rule book, so does it say you cant use a stick welder for slow cars?

 

The NHRA wants MIG welding on mild steel chassis and TIG on 4130 steel.

 

66 year old fart and have two chest zippers.
My 2007 rule book states that mild steel roll bars and cages must by welded with MIG or TIG. The paragraph talks about slag inclusions, which is what they are probably worried about with stick welding. Pipelines and ships are stick welded. I'm betting a good stick weld on an HA/GR could get through tech.

 

Bobw and 64 Dodge are right.

Section 4 of the general regulations; Roll bars:

All 4130 chromoly tube must be TIG heliarc welded and mild steel tubing must be MIG wire feed or TIG welded. I doubt anyone would ever catch a good stick welded chassis.... unless it was one I did. My welding looks like clumps of bubble gum.

Ron

 

That is one thing that they have never checked on mine.If they checked it, they never said anything. The chassis and the mild steel roll cage is all stick welded and I thinks it would pass an X-ray test.
I have seen some mig welded stuff that I would be worried about, but it was the weldor not the welder.
Ron, did they say anything about how the switch was to operate? I was told that in 2008, they had to be push/pull from the back and I think push was off??

 

We discussed that briefly yesterday and the switch can be any style as long as it identifies the off position. On push/pull switches your correct..it has to push in to kill the power.

Ron

 

that's good to know about the stick welding. I have been considering buying about a hundred pounds of 7010 and brushing up.
I guess I better get 200 if I'm going to pull it off!!!

 

So just to clarify (for a snot nosed shin biter of a spry 34) they were recommending E85, or against it?

 

A quick review of my rule book shows that alcohol, or E85 is legal in all bracket or index classes. Must use gas in stock, super stock and all the wierd derivations thay have created of those types of cars. Gas Dragsters must use gas (duh), econo dragsters are gas only, nostalgia dragster is methanol only. It appears to me that HA/GR owners could determine their own rule regarding fuel, since the cars don't fit into any classification.

 

Ahh, okay, I wasn't sure. Thank you.

 

I personally lean to running gasoline.......it seems like alcohol, ethanol, and methanol fuels aren't compatible with many old technology fuel system components, and it's not like our six inch tire is going to be able to couple up the extra horsepower anyway.

Isn't the class "HAMB Gas Dragsters" anyway?

 

If I remember correctly, you need about 1/3 more volume of E85 compared to gas. Old carbs can be rejetted but there could be passages in some carbs that should be enlarged but would be hard to do. Could be a builder/tuner's nightmare when using period correct carbs. Yeah, I know the old lakes guys ran alcohol in 97's etc., so it can be done.

 

After talking to some people that run alcohol I think that I'm sticking with gas because of the problems. You have to get rid of all the rubber or neoprene within the fuel system. Also you have to run a lot more of it. One thing is that it runs much cooler than gas. I doubt that we would run more than a gallon of gas at a meet anyway unless you were making a tremendious amount of runs.Roy

 

ROY the hornet burns a quart of fuel on a12.30 107 pass that includes doing aburn out and stageing