Anyone using hilborns on a road car,hows it go?hows the idle blah blah blah .i know someone recently done a tech but how do you set this up........i'm weighing my options up before i commit on an induction system.......Marq
I've always heard they needed to be converted to electronically controlled to be really usable on the street. A friend of mine who used to race sprint cars in 70's used a Hilborn injection setup on a alcohol burning Chevy engine. He said they were the most effective at wide open throttle. Tuning them was basically running them as rich as possible. He added, "You knew it was running good when your eyes burned from all the alcohol!"
You just have to know how. There is a man local who is going to be marketing components to do it-- and I am not talking about EFI. Jeepers, this is the HAMB. A friend of mine has seen the injected 392 hemi they are on, running, and got to hear the before/after of the manifold swap, each being run. He said once the Hilborn was on, it sounded like a different animal. The idle cleaned up, the response was killer. Until I heard this, I had been under the impression that naturally aspirated might load up at idle and that blown engines with a high idle would fare better. I know of some Willys guys that have mechanical Hilborn injection on their blown engines on the street. Works just fine when set up properly. Gas mileage is likely to be poor though. But heck, they are hot rods.
To add to this, The barrel valve is one of the items that recieves modifications. The Enderle barrel valve is no good to use, as it is basically an idle or full-throttle only type of deal. Very steep ramps. The Hilborn barrel valve has a gentler curve. The barrel valve then gets modified further somehow for an even gentler curve. I don't know exactly what is done.
I've run Hilborns on dragsters and sprint cars for many years. Can they be run on the street ? Sure they can....but it's not what they're designed for. They're intended for wide-open-throttle racing and they do that very well. If you want to give up driveability, fuel mileage, etc. and want to have to squirt fuel down the stacks every time you cold start the thing have at it.... Want something that's at least as responsive as a Hilborn (perhaps more) and will perform as well (maybe better in your case), there's a Predator carburetor for sale in the H.A.M.B. classifieds. I ran one on my limited sprint car in '89 and '90 and I have to say it was probably the finest piece of after-market equipment I ever purchased in my 40+ years of experience. Just my $.02 worth.....
I am going to try, but have been unable to find a magic formula for the street. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48771 I listed the parts used in the Rodder Digest article. I think Blownolds has a big part of puzzle. The smaller metering rotor, smaller nozzles. If you take this on you will have to do a lot of tinkering. My plan is to start on a known good motor, already broken in. You are not getting many replies because it not common.
There was a how to in Rodders Digest? a couple months ago. And that's what it was, small pump and smallest injectors. And a few things people don't consider, like the gas leaking out the nozzle vents on shut down.
The leaking gas on the outside is with vented nozzles, as opposed to them dripping inside with un-vented nozzles. I'm not sure if there's enough that leaks inside to really make a difference-- I am not familiar with the amount they bleed. Heck, might even be a great primer, LOL! Oh-- and FWIW, that leaking is on shutoff as the line drips a little. Oh, and as for priming, and a cold start, I thought it was more complicated myself. One guy with a Willys says he only has to crank for about 10 seconds maximum, then it fires right up and the idle evens out a couple seconds later. That's not bad at all in my book. Plus a 10-second crank also gets the oil up a bit before it fires-- a good thing.
Pete Jackson makes a stepped barrel valve. It doesn't give you an idle circuite but it does give you a decent mid range and a high speed. Hell idlein' around is for the gusy at the fairgrounds. injection is built for zoomin', right? I'm still partial to Enderle Barn Doors for a streeter. They don't look as cool I guess but they work good. And the only one's that know you're running injection are the folks that KNOW.
Ex-drag legend Junior Thompson has had good luck with Hilborn injection on the street (so I've heard).. www.jrthompson.net
I believe Jr. will set them up for the street. But he's not in the best of health right now, so maybe he might not be doing anything right now?? If so, there are others.
I'm sure you could run one on the street but the question is, at what degree of drivability. You can kiss off 900 rpm and say hello to a 1.5+ grand idle. This makes it real interesting at stop lights. There's a kit for converting mechanical to EFI and thats probably the way to go.
I'm contemplating the same task myself. Thanks for the info regarding the barrel valves (It will most likely come in handy) I discussed running a mechanical Hilborn on the street w/ someone (up North) who had a "injected" 392 Hemi in a "T" bucket. The high idle at the intersections can be manually adjusted by using a "Kinsler dial a jet". Another concern was the sqirt bottle start up. It will start right up while it's still warm. Maybe 5 - 10 min. I'm going with a contraption the drag boat guys use. Run your fuel under pressure into a slightly elevated reservoir. Then you can manually release it with a control valve under your dash. Well! you wont see this ol' boy shelling out 5 g's to run a EFI system however, I will eventually make my own. Ever since I endured the pain & suffering involved to "shoehorn" my 1st Hemi, I've been making all of my own brackets, patch pannels, floors, mounts etc etc etc. I guess they wont be selling too many (price gouging)bolt on goodies to me. Now where in #@%! did I put that perpetual motion machine. It's worth a fortune. I saw a part I want on E bay.
There was a thread on here ways back and someone had mentioned the Hotrod Magazine article from September 1986. I found this issue on Ebay and bought it. There is a plethura of information in this issue including diagrams. The article mentions running a surge tank, 2 fuel pumps for easy starts(1-mechanicl and 1- electric), shut off valve and your high and low speed bypass. I myself will be running a similiar set up on a 392 HEMI here shortly. I'll let everyone know how it goes.
I am also working on a set off 2 1/16 Hilborns for my small block chevy.Get some teh books from Kinsler and go to Hilborns web site for information.Pump size info is there,also there are different barrell valves for gas and alky same with nozzles, alot of people don't change that.I f you run an electric fuel pump on a second fuel line you just turn the pump on for a few seconds then shut it of and the injectors are primed.
I used to work with a guy named chad in san diego that ran mechanical hilbourn in his 5 window coupe ... its was all or none and was so bad ass .. it can be done cause ive seen it . dont go to diff elevations though .. climbing the grapevine would be a bitch .. anyhow good luck
Injectors idle just fine,the have no acc pump so when the barrel valve is set for good idle ,it is set to lean for when the butterflys open,if it is rich enough when the butterflys open it loads up on idle. Sprint cars idle just fine.People I have met suggest stick shift trans or loose converter so you can clean out the motor when needed, if it loads up.
Everything on the setup is hillborn. Such as the barral valve,pump,ect.Nothing has been modified.I'm using 6A nozzels,.125 pill.The stock gas tank feeds gas to the moon tank you see mounted on the front of the car.The moon tank then gravity feeds fuel to the pump.The moon tank also has the fuel return line connected to it. I installed the fuel shut off right on top of the barral valve.The pill work's to lean the engine at wide open throtle . The barral valve is your rich and lean ajustment once you get your barral valve ajusted just right the car will run fine.
ill be adding "how to run a hilborn on the street" to my knowledge of stuff soon, im gonna build a hiborn injected nailhead powered hot rod of some sort soon, the body style is yet to be decided. im also gonna run a packard stick trans. ive talked to some friends and got some good leads on how to do it. jeff
i also have a couple Hilborn units going on engines in the very near future. I have a local Hilborn dude with a barrell valve flow bench. We are doing a flathead and a small block chevy. I have seen some other guys with a remachined barrell valve etc. Our injector guy sets these up on the flow bench, adjusts the flow and the barrel valve then dyno tests the entire unit. Most of them run very well on the dyno right off the flow bench. Like many others have states its in the adjustment of the barrel valve and the bypass circuits etc. I will post as we progress as well. Bubbas Hot Rod Shop Indianapolis
I ran a 4 port on top of a blower on a street car. I worked great as long as you could get it started without fouling half the plugs. I carried about 4 sleeves of plug at all times and a socket. I made a "surge" tank that held a gallon of fuel and put it right by the main fuel pump. Then a Holley blue that feed the surge tank from the main tank. The folks at Hilborn were very helpful when ever I called with questions!
The original post by Marq was March of 05, he could probably answer his own question for you. I see a lot of guys restarted the post the last day or two. First off, you can do it if you want to drive on the street. The question is, How muck driving are you going to do on the street. If you plan to drive more than a couple hundred miles a year on the street, you want to go with Hilborn electronic setup. The mechanical is just too temperamental to jump in any day, any temperature, any humidity. One day it will run perfect, the next, it won't run at all. The mechanical Hilborn system is designed to run wide open.
Check out the Hemi that the guys from Hollywood Hot Rods have in their bronze sectioned 32 roadster. They converted the Hilborn to electronic and you can't tell. I am doing a Ford two liter Zetec with electronic Hilborn and it looks good but there is a ton of wiring! Rex
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