Hi. I started painting yesterday for the first time in my life using proper HVLP equipment. I have the right compressor, air lines, fittings, filters, dryer, and gun. I painted in 65 degress in an air and dust controlled environment. The gun is Devilbiss Finishline III. I painted a large test panel with DuPont Centari Acrylic Enamel. This is the paint I plan to use on all of my project car. I mixed the paint to the DuPont recommended ratio - 8 parts paint to 2 parts reducer to 1 part hardener. I got a little bit of orange peel in my finish. Three causes I can think of are too little air pressure, not holding the gun exactly perpendicular to the surface at all times, and making too fast of passes. These things I learned from that one test panel. I'm wondering if thinning the paint a little more than recommended may help to prevent orange peel. I think I've heard some folks say in the past that DuPont's ratio is a little thick. Do any of you have an opinion about DuPont's ratio for this paint and whether or not it's thickness/viscosity may be an easy contributor to orange peel? Please let me know what you think. Deluxe
Its been a long time since I have shot any Centauri but I remember colorsanding orange peel out of it and them polishing it. That could be because I was never a great painter. lol
every centari paint job i have seen has had a little bit of orange peal in it till it was buffed out. must be something about acrylic enamel i guess.
Kinda OT...but wear a good respirator, gloves and suit with that stuff! Isocyanates screw you up fast! I can't paint professionally anymore because of Isocyanates...well...because I didn't protect myself properly from its effects I should say...
I have sprayed some centari in the past, and yes thinning a LITTLE more than recommended is good for the finish. Are you using the 2000 kit? This is a gloss additive and a hardener in one. It will also help with orange peel and make a better paint job in the end. With all that said I have also had to wet sand and buff many of my centari jobs. Hope this helps and post some pics when your done.
I painted with Centari alot in the 70's and 80's so don't know how much it has changed since then. There was a real fine line between putting it on wet enough to laydown and have consistant gloss and putting it on too wet where it had runs. I don't know if you are "married" to using Centari but I would use a base coat/clear coat system. My limited experience is it is more forgiving and a lot more durable. The Centari of 20 years ago required a lot of waxing to keep it looing good.
What temp reducer did you use? Different reducers have temp ranges. 8093 is a hi temp (75-90 degrees) etc etc... I usually over-reduce paint by 2-3% it helps with the flow-out. What was your air pressure at the gun with the trigger depressed? around 15-25 psi is good for most paint. Centari is good paint, but I think it's gonna be phased out in the near future. It's been around for years, since the 70s. I can't even get Centari around here anymore unless I go to one jobber about 50 miles away. the Finishline gun is a average starter gun... It's not bad for the money tho. I use a Devilbiss Plus & Devilbiss GTi primarily, also have a Sata that I use seldom.
I'm not using the 2000 kit, but I am using a gloss/wet look hardener. I've read at least a few times on here about 'spray and walk away' paint jobs that don't require sanding or buffing. I'm not looking for perfection. I just want to minimize the flaws as much as possible so sanding and buffing aren't absultely necessary. Thanks for the input so far! Deluxe
I used the DuPont mid-temp reducer. I had air pressure at the gun-mounted regulator in the low twenties. I believe I need to increase the air to a little above the Devilbiss-recommended 23psi. Maybe to around 25 or so. Deluxe
I used that stuff.Painted a few cars with it.I thought you had it thick and I remember mixing it 2:1 Paint:reducer. I rechecked the can i have and thats what it says 2 parts paint 1 part reducer.....Unless they changed it,This stuffs been laying here a while.I have had good luck with it but its all I used.I have just tried some base/clear sold through napa,I think it was called semour or somthing like that.It was nothing but shit.
Napa's high end base/clear is Sherwin Williams paint and i love it next to PPG and House of Color. Napa's buget paint: Crossfire, the prepac clear coat and single stage is crap but some of the low end HS tints are killer.
Deluxe- I'd try raising your pressure a bit, both of my Devilbiss guns work better at higher PSI than what Dev. recommends. Tetanus- The brand you're thinking of is Martin-Senour. Only reason I remember is when the local NAPA went out of business a few years ago I dug their 50s & 60s Martin-Senour chip books out of the dumpster where they tossed them.
Deluxe, The paint companys have changed the mixing ratio to meet new air quality standards. Had the same problem as you. Called my paint rep and he said use the old formula 8 paint 4 reducer 1 hardner. Try a test panel again it should lay flat like glass.
Centari. Ah.. Memories. My experience and fading memory of that unique smell makes me agree with the above info. Try a little more temp. like Brian says. Then try a LITTLE more reducer but only if you really need to. It was made for that mix amount and was fussy about settings (air pressure, temp, humidity, mix, spray pattern, etc.). I painted my father's Chrysler 300 (forget the year but was one L O N G car) Black with no polishing needed. Looked good for a long time. And for the love of all that's good and holy.. read HackerBill's post (no way at all off topic, man!) over and over until it's burned in your brain. I've also had my bad times because of poly-isocyanates and I used the recommended mask at the time. They never recommended suits and a proper fresh air source way back when it was first out. Charcoal respirators was "proper". That was bull. Even if you are only doing this job.. protect yourself. The health problems from painting isn't reversible. And show us your handi-work, Joe (ex-painter and lung hacker-upper) edit: Some of the guys here have newer info so I'm out of touch EXCEPT for the safety!!!
thats pretty much how i spray it.... it will flow out nicely...last coat i might go 4:2:1 to flow out any orange peal..... and use the correct temp reducer.... that helps.... brandon
Centari is good stuff. I used to use only that, now I buy Nasson, the budget Dupont brand. The right reducer for your temp will help, a little extra reducer don't hurt, thin like water!, 45-50 lbs at the gun is nice. Nothing wrong with single stage system. Do a fog coat, do a wet coat, do another wet coat for final gloss. Keep the temp up overnight or the hardner won't work right. I never had to wet sand and buff. Get that third coat right and you can read a Bud label in the reflection I know a body shop painter that does all the new finishes at work, on his own cars he uses Centari single with hardner. Frank
Don`t know about in the US but Dupont is closing out Centari up here in Canada.I just did a vette and have a hard time getting 99A black,I was told that Nason is replace the Acrylic line.I love Centari and like it better then alot of other brands,and I have use a lot of different paints.I only use Centari for Solid colors and base clear for everthing eles.As for how to put it on.I have been using it for some 20 years and painting it in all kinds of tempetures.I have found that I had my best finshes in colder temps.But that is just me I live is a cold climate and make do in a small garage. I don`t like the HVLP guns, they save on material but when your use to a Devilbiss JGA 9000 tip gavity feed it is hard to chance.I alway mix to what it calls for and just spray with higher pressures and move slow with the gun close.Trick with Centari is what you lay on the panal right out of the gun is what your finsh will turn out like. You can push this paint to it limit and not get runs but yes it happens and I have had my fill of runs over the years,I call them flow indacators!! I find that it water sands and buffs up real nice. So to recap just Slow down with your gun,hold it a little bit closer and watch what you laying down cause that will be your finsh fitzee
I always mix Centari 4/1/1 and have great results. Thats what the local paint shop told me. I tried different ratios and got orange peel. I live in a dry climate and high altitude, maybe thats why its different.
I used to shoot Centari too, and didn't properly protect myself. The last paint job I did was on my '65 Galaxie 2dr HT a couple of years back, and I used the Nason. There isn't a lot of difference, except that the hardener is sensitive to high temperature and using too small of a tip. It will blow back on you, you can go along and have it look beautiful, and go back around and have gravel rising to the top. It was more forgiving on a cooler day with a bigger tip and less air pressure, and crossing your fingers and toes. I don't know if my vision loss is from painting, but please always use a fresh air cap and a suit. Even with a cannister respirator I was still hacking up Caspian Blue for a week. I also think it attacked my eyes because I can't even drive any more. Doc says it is nerve damage. Beware.
I haven't invested in HVLP equipment yet but I always reduce Centari (and about everything else) a little extra and spray double wet coats. I can't tell you exactly how much. It's based on experience. The final coat will be even more reduced and sprayed from further back with the fluid flow turned up a little. It's the way I learned years ago and I get nice results. I also use the slowest drying reducer I can get away with so I get excellant flow out. I can't ever remember buying any fast reducer. I use medium range down into the upper 6os and a slow reducer at any temp above 75 degrees. If it's so cool that I need to use a fast drying reducer than it's too cold to paint as far as I'm concerned. You should get very smooth results like this but it does take a lot of practice not to end up with runs. Melt in and flow out are what I try to accomplish to reduce sanding and buffing time. Tom
I pretty much agree with what everyone hear has stated except for having to wax centari a lot. Maybe its because I used the 2000 kit, not sure, but I painted a 1978 GMC 3/4 ton truck that only got used for plowing snow with it in 1997. I sold that truck last summer and it still damn near shined like the day after I painted it. The truck sat outside almost the entire time I owned it. And I never even washed it!!!! As far as the safety is concerned,get the best equipment you can and buy a body suit and a paint sock for your head. You really don't want any skin exposed.
Thats just the nature of the beast it is a little rough but it color sands and buffs nice. An ok painter with a good buffer will be better than a good painter with an ok buffer.
I have sprayed lots of cars with Centari. As someone stated earlier use the 2000 pak. This will let the paint flow better and reduce your oarnge peel. Also this will make the paint last as long as a urethane. It takes practice to find that fine line between wet/flat and having a run. Keep your tip about 12" away and practice with differant speeds. Make sure you use the right temp. reducer. Too cold and it dries fast and oarnge peels, too hot and it will run on the floor. Good luck. With practice this is a great paint.
My dad always liked to shoot Centari Acrylic Enamel. He would always start at one panel and work around the vehicle, and when it was all in color, or he had the desired number of coats, he would always do one final step. I remember him taking about 8-12 parts thinner to 1 part color and hardener, and then making an almost 'sprint' around the car, spraying from about 2-3 times the normal distance from the panel. He claimed it would re-activate the color that was already on the car and help it flow together a bit more and help eliminate orange peel. I know some people are going to look at that as "What the F***?" info, but it always worked for the old man, and he had some beautiful cars he painted. Take it for what its worth. Try it on your test panel and see what you think.
Gotzrider, The mist coat of thinner/paint is actually a good way to help final flow out. I do it all the time when I'm shooting urethane(PPG Concept) on a big car. Even Ford did that in the factory back in the 30s.. so it's not to far fetched!
I use urethane hardener in all the acrylic enamels that I shoot and I also mix color 1 to 1 with urethane clear then add hardener and reducer, only on my last coat, especially on a solid color. As far as your HVLP, crank up your air pressure to 40 to 50 psi and move a little faster, that should help you with your orange peel. For the most part, it will sand and buff!
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