Nitromethane + Hydrazine = MADNESS!!!!

I have a good friend "dick belfattii- The Shadow" who was one of the original "greek fleet" fuel cars in the early 60's. he played with hydrozine in his fuel car anlong with buddies karamasinis & don maynard and later payed a heffty price for it ,burned the skin off his legs after his engine exploded at a match race in York pa. that explosion made him a team owner and he had bobby vodnick do the driving after that. see the pics of the engine after the explosion (nitro/alky/hydrozine) dick said the hydrozine was good for about 10 mph on the top end (if you got the mix right?)

 

This is awesome reading. I've heard some of these stories from race fuel wizard Tim Wusz.

So....can anyone speculate on what shit Waltrip put in his intake manifold at Daytona last year?

 

Heard on the news that the dying satellite they are planning to intercept and blow up carries a load of... HYDRAZINE!

 

What I'm wondering is how were they getting their hands on this stuff? I realize times were different but what was Hydrazine actually used for that made it available?

 

it appears that hydrazine,although a seriously dangerous chemical is safer than hydrogen which must be compressed when powering a car.
Heres some info from Daihatsu who are using it to power a car.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/09/15/daihatsu-develops-a-precious-metal-free-fuel-cell/

 

Craig Breedlove had a go with it too.

During the 1970's, Craig campaigned a rocket dragster powered with a lunar module motor fueled by hydrazine. This led to this consideration of a new rocket-powered land speed record car, but U.S. government restrictions on the use of rocket engines and fuels became too stringent to successfully continue the program, and he had to abandon his rocket car project in the mid-1980s. The full-size, 41 foot mock-up for that intended rocket car is now exhibited at various museums and is the design forerunner to his newest Spirit of America land speed record car.

 

Grew up here in Chitown a few miles from the Greeks garage[still see him locally].Remember these stories, they used an eye dropper to add this stuff.The Greek also was not opposed to starting up his fueler down the side streets.That drew a crowd. Hey, watch the news today. That satellite we're trying to shoot down,the govt says its because theres 1000 lbs of hydrazine in it.

 

During WW2 Shell had a gasoline type fuel called Triptane,not sure if it was an additive or the fuel itself.Devoloped for use in highly supercharged aircraft engines to resist detonation.Triptane had an aircraft octane rating of around 200.After the war it was used by some air race teams.This Triptane shit from what I read allowed blower boost pressures around 38 psi in engines with 150 cubic inch plus cylinders.

 

Triptane = $$$$

When mixed with 115/145 (the purple stuff) 60/40 (heavy on Avgas) it was a reported 258 'Octane'.

There are reports of engines (Merlins and Grifons (sp?) liquid cooled regardless) running in excess of 150 " Hg of boost with this mix. As you can immagine, nothing lasts very long at that level.

 

All of these stories and not one picture of some green flames?!


This was before my time... anyone have a pic or two to share?

 

Nexx ,Triptane (2,4,4 tri methyl pentane) was also used in Allison powered P-39's used for air races in the late 1940's.This shitty airplane with an Allison blew away all Merlins and big radial powered pylon racers of the day.About 2900 hp in an overboosted but otherwise fairly stock Allison 1710.Besidies Triptane,a mixture of menthol,benzine and acetone was used at times.

 

I worked for a "unnamed" aerospace company that ordered 50# of mono-methyl hydrazine for spacecraft propellant and couldn't find it. Turns out the shipping folks were using the crate for a cigarette stand........

 

Yeah, I figured it had been used in others, but I have never heard of it being used in anything air cooled, only liquid cooled like the Allison, Merlin, etc.

I have a couple articles tucked away somewhere about it, if I could find them, that covers it's development and some of the performance comparisons (no real data, just generalities). All the stuff I have covers the war, but it makes sense it would be around in air racing.

 

Now this is a great post. I am lovin' this. Called my Dad last night and mentioned it and the tone of his voice changed and said we would talk about it this weekend......Maybe another story eh?
Fitysix

 

Nexxussian,yeah,I'm pulling the Triptane info out of Whitney's book on the Allison 1710 .I didn't mean to say it was used in radials though.Is the Triptane still available???

 

Not in any significant volume, to my knowledge. It was never really that 'available' to begin with. From what I read it was only produced in "laboratory" quantities before the war. It was considered too expensive, even during the war (remember this is during a time when the Manhattan project took all the silver for dimes out of the US Treasury to make the windings in electromagnets to separate U235 from U238). There were supposedly plans at one point to build a plant to produce it in large quantities, but from what I have read the war would have had to have lasted into 1947 for that to have reached fruition (assuming no setbacks) by which time the jets would have likely been mopping the floor with the 8th Air Force, so, I'm guessing even then it wouldn't have made a difference anyway.

I'm sure if you found the right person, it's still around in 'laboratory quantities', hell Carbon Tet is too (but I'm guessing no one wants any of that either, unless you are trying to MASS produce Bio Diesel). One thought (Carbon Tet and threads like this bring it to mind) I have never seen a MSDS for Triptane, or any of the IsoAlkane family, so I have to wonder just how nasty it is. Probably not as bad as Hydrazine.

 

Just saw a video of the satellite being destroyed by a direct hit from a missile fired from the USS Lake Erie. Way to go Navy!

 

An old friend used to run nitropropane AKA purple shit in his stock car in the late 50's-early 60's era. He died of cancer like a whole bunch of people who mess with known carcinogens with no knowledge. Knowing him if it made it go faster he'd do it again too

 

"....the satellite being destroyed by a direct hit from a missile..."
Yeah, that's what they want you to believe.
Now, what size jets would you put in your Model B Ford Zenith carb if, hypothetically, you had just found 100 gallons of hydrazine??? Heheheheh.

 

3 weeks ago i heard on radio that the chances of the hydrazine reaching earth were Zero,Why? duh! it's in outer space and what happens to everything once it re enters the atmosphere?
why all the panic over the shuttle and few missing tiles?
It burns up!!!
So ,to freak out the Russians and Chinese the US government decides to indulge in a bit of old fashioned saber rattling and blow the thing out of the sky.And hey it's 2008, they should damn well be able to shoot down something by now or they've wasted money over the last 60 years on shit .

 

Phil, what years were you at the Beach ..?

And with what car..???

Great read...!

 

i remember back around '64-'66 i was at lions watching funny cars run. i was about 15 or 16 and i saw one of them blow up on the line and it was at night also, something glowing red went flying over our heads in the stands and landed in the parking lot. i went into the pits later and looked at the motor and there was a hole right through the head from the piston going through it. if i remember right, it was the ramcharges dodge funny car. i remember an article in super stock/drag illustrated about the funnies running hydrazine too.

 

As to the bus-size satellite getting blown up for the hydrazine, the real reason they needed it shot down was all the high-zoot spy electronics they didn't want to fall into "the wrong hands".
C'mon folks, they spent 40 million to shoot down 1000 pounds of hydrazine that would have burned up in re-entry anyway? NOT!

 

Supposedly the tank the hydrazine was in was built tough enough that it might have survived re-entry. Plus they didnt want any more hotrod guys getting their greasy paws on the stuff!

 

we are talking 3000 C degrees on re entry,aint nothing in a tank going to survive that..ha ha . Remember 'sky lab? " dumped burnt up crap in the indian ocean and Australia but nothing much bigger than a foot ball sized chunk.Good shooting though.

 

good article here
http://www.competitionplus.com/2004_10_21/hydrazine.html

and

"[SIZE=-1]Doug & Lori Peterson warming up Ol # 2. Doug has the Hydrazine bottle in his hand. He claimed to be running only 2%. That’s John Spradlin & Hal Sanquinetti in the background. John said he'd bring his SPE dragster next year"

ffrom www.wediditforlove.com

[/SIZE]

 

Well it seams Hydrazine is present in most new cars today ;-)
From Wikipedia.

The gas-forming agent in air bags, is produced from hydrazine by reaction with sodium nitrite.[2] Hydrazine has also been used in fuel cells, including those providing power in early space satellites. It is also used as a propellant fuel on board space vehicles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine


But i Want to hear more Sixties dragracing stories ;-)

 

Please

 

Use to work on a t/f harly in the 80s and 90s.My job was clutch and fuel systems,heard of some guys playing with hydrazine and zylene i believe but we never did .Propralyne oxide we used quite a bit,96 percent with 6 to 8 oz per gallon.On those hot muggy days it helped if the heads would stay on.We ran a naturally asperated only one guy was messin with a super charger,dont know what they are playing with now.(sorry i was born in 1966 best i can do)

 

If I remember correctly, Eddie Schartman dynamited his injected Comet funny car once when the Hydrazine left in the tank went off coming down the return road.

I think Angus (or whatever chemical company made the Nitro) then put a reactive dye in the stuff that would turn blue when it became shock sensitive.

You were to run from Blue Nitro!!!

When we raced Fuel Hydros, we played with Propylene Oxide and Hydrogen Peroxide (through the water injection system, another story) to add some oxygen to the mix.

My driver said he didn't know you had to be a Chemical Engineer to race.