Fish Carburetors...are they rare?

I was recently reading an article on early dirt track racing and it mentioned Fish carbs as being a hot set up. Did a net search on them and found some info. I can't say I've heard of em'. Anyone out in the HAMB world running them? I assume they're rare?

 

I've heard that people were always carping about them.

Seems they were bad about developing scale.

Only worked well on cars with fins.

The large mouth models were the most desireable.

To make them run right you had to be a pretty good tuna.

Please stop me!

 

http://www.fireballroberts.com/Fish_Story.htm

 

check the inliners board - a couple guys across the pond are using them and are very knowledgable

 

NITROFC, Interesting read, thanks

 

Good read.

Definately something to keep your eyes out for. I wonder how many survive?

 

Here's mine that I'm going to try on my 4-banger....

 

I have a couple NOS single barrells and last summer ran one on a flathead engine on my engine stand. Pretty amazing how well it ran and started right up.
Interesting design that just never ( for whatever reason) never caught on.

 

Much of the problem with Fish and his carb was exaggerated mileage claims (not his, the media) that discredited the whole thing.

 

Good read, NITRO. Interesting idea with the pressure differential, but I agree that the claims of fuel economy seem a bit far-fetched.

 

Glad ya NJoyed the link ..Good Reading on this Snowy day from the East

 

Hmmmm....

Reverse engineer it and put a modern version to the test.

 

that's neat...as a carb nerd, i wanna get me a couple to play with

 

looks like a very similar design to some of my older(mid 70's) mikuni carbs.(they are not flat slides) those too work off a pressure differential. have no venturie and dont rely on fuel level. they will run upside down(side draft)

 

Fiat had them on their Rallye Cars in the early 70's with a huge amount of Success on the world rallye circuit .I remember the sound of these little 4 bangers being thrashed around tracks in NZ as a kid and got to look at the engines. It's a very simple concept which works well .
The failure of ther company had more to do with under capitlisation and bad marketing than anything to do with the carbs.
Today no one makes a car with carbs, so it's moot point as to whether or not they were a marketable proposition.

 

Here is my only experience with them. This is a car that I finished for the owner in the late '70s that had a Corvette 283, with a custom drilled manifold for the carbs.

Roger McCluskey (the Indy racer) built the car, hence the use of the "floatless" circle track Fish single barrels. Car started and ran good, but I didn't get to drive it much.

 

Is this the same principal as the carb used on the Old VW Revmaster engines used on experimental aircraft? I helped a friend build a small home build with the Revmaster and the carb was underneath the engine. No working parts except for the sliding rod that was tapered to allow more fuel when the rod was pulled from the center pipe that was the fuel delivery. It had no fuel pump, so the engine was kind of hard to start but once it was running, it would really make power. Seems like it had a priming mechanism before you started the engine.

 

The Dallas area super-modifieds ran these things back in the 60's before they moved on to FI sprint cars. Don't know much about them, but they were the way to go back then. Interesting thread.....hadn't thought about Fish carbs for years.

 

NOW THAT'S FRICKIN' FUNNY, You Guys are always Clown fishin' around!

 

they show up on EBay from time to time

 

Fish carburetors were originally made in the 1950s in Daytona Beach and run on 'Fireball' Roberts Nascar cars. They were built under licence by two companies in Great Britain (in the 1960s) and modified by Leonard Reece - as the 'Reece Fish, Carshalton Beeches, Surrey and as the 'Minnow Fish' in Lochgilphead, Scotland.

The US Fish carbs consisted of three downdraft models - M1,M2 M3 and a very rare side draft model. I have one of these side draft Fish carbs. They were revived (except the side draft) in the early 1980s by the Brown Manufacturing Co.

One particularly interesting feature of the Reece Fish variant is that the fuel bowl can be swiveled and it can be used either as a side draft or a downdraft carburetor. They were made in 1-1/4", 1-1/2" and 1-3/4" versions.

 

As a teenager in the 50s, (70 now), I remember reading about the Fish carb in such publications as "Mechanic's Illustrated", "Popular Mechanics",, and "Popular Science" .
Actually had an encounter whilst serving as the "gopher" on the race team of an older friend who later moved to Tifton, GA and became quite a sportsman and modified driver across the Southeast, the late Aubrey Holley.
Aubrey put one on his car, a ".060 over" sportsman(.060" over on 3&3/16"bore, stock 3&3/4" stroke, single carb., iron heads, stock appearing ignition, etc.), and got to run it one night only, then was told by the promoters at the "Peach Bowl" that other drivers had complained that this carb was associated more with modifieds than Sportsman, and to take it off. Never really knew the circumstances of whose carb it was, or where it went.
Dave

 

been diggin on these things... apparently the tooling from the 80's Mike Brown company production are still in existence, and if enough support is raised he'll do a limited run. http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/bccfish.htm
also have a look at http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/feb2/bird.htm
it REALLY IS all a conspiracy.... my dad had a buddy in 60's who was a doctor, bought a brand new mustang. drove from Youngstown area all the way to Cleveland Ohio and the gas guage didnt move. took it to the dealer and found out the carb was a special ford experimental bit. the dealer had to remove it and pay for all the gas the mustang used as long as the doc owned it.

 

also, from www.fuel-efficient-vehicles.org, the fish carbs can be purchased from "Fuel Systems of America, Box 9333, Tacoma, Washington 98401, phone 206-922-2228"

may be worth a phone call... will post if i find anything out

 

I have 3 Fish carbs- an M1, an M3, and the Tyce Fish made by JR Fish's son during the 60's. I did some flowbench testing of the M1 to see what it flowed, and to see how suction in the hollow throttle shaft varied with throttle angle. The throttle plate appears to function as an airfoil at high angles, because the suction varied by a factor of 10- from 2.3 VP when closed to 20.6 VP @ 10" H20 depression when fully open. At low throttle angles, air enters the top set of holes, and the throttle shaft functions as an emulsion tube. As the throttle opens, the top holes start flowing fuel, and with the increased suction, it probably starts going rich. The Europen racers had a problem at high rpm's (see Clive Trickey setup instructions at http://fish.jan-wulf.de , english section). The carb seemed to meter rich, but the engine ran lean- which can happen with large fuel droplets falling out of the airstream around manifold corners. There didn't seem to be a problem under 6000 rpm. I'm going to run the M3 on a 230 flathead on my Dodge Power wagon, and compare it against 3 38mm Mikuni snowmobile carbs- more Power for the Wagon! The Fish will have it's work cut out- properly tuned Mikunis are hard to beat!

 

I have 2 of the minnow fish carbs but having trouble getting them set up correctly in uk.there 1 1/2 downdraft. would consider selling one if i got a good enough offer.they are very rare.

 

My grandfather was the west coast dealer for the Fish Carb Co. He installed them on just about everything, from Super Modifieds at West Capitol raceway to my dads 73 Ford truck. Back in the 60's you could run one Fish to three Strombergs at San Jose Speedway. My dad still runs one on his 52 Hudson. He probably has more Fish carbs and adaptors than anybody. Shit he has an adaptor to put one on a VW. Just the other day I was in a bar and an old timer started to talk to me about my Hudson, long story short he went to high school with my grandfather and was telling me about the time he put a Fish on his Edsel, he still has the carb. That was the only thing he took off when he traded it in. He averaged 8 more miles to a gallon. They were a great carb but you have to have an understanding in getting them dialed in.

 

MY m3 runns rich as hell (even at idle) no mather what I do.
I got several instruction sheets and all and tried everything.

There was one shim behind the arm - took it out, but without it I can´t even start the engine.

Maybe you can ask your dad what to do.

Thanks, Frank

 

Vizard has extrensive tuning notes in his Mini book.

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/Mopar-books.htm#DV-MC

 

I'm picturing a cross section of the carburetor, with a spray of sardines shooting down out of the venturis.

I dunno, something smells fishy.