TECH: Building a Rod the Chinese Way. (for novice builders)

The chinese have learned that it is far easier to replicate what someone else has taken the time to think out and engineer than to think out something from scratch. there are plenty of directly reverse engineered products from the people's republic to bear testimony to that.

so what does that have to do with rodding??

there is no doubt that there is a 'formula' to achieving the proper look for your rig. its not anything that can be quantified. it is a confluence of proportion and finish composed and framed by componentry.

when you see that 'IT' car you know it has 'IT'.

Do you know you want a car that looks like THAT but don't know where to start? what to do?

do like the chinese and reverse engineer yourself a hot rod. its nothing shameful. people have been replicating various hot rod styles for over 60 years.

most folks aren't born with the innate knowledge that translates into a proper hot rod. its evident in so many floridabortions for hock on the auction site (nothing personal florida HAMBers). so what to do?

study.

when you see a car you like at a local rod run, car show, cruise night, magazine, etc. be prepared to absorb as much about that car as you can in the shortest period of time.

you'll need a couple of things.
1) camera (digital or traditional)
2) note pad and something to write with
3) measuring tape
4) a good pair of ears

if you're lucky enough to find a car the was built by the owner or owned by someone who knows about the build, ask questions. how long is this? how tall is that? how much did you ____ ?what size ____ ? what kind of ____ ?
start a little 'photo file' with all of the angles and detail photos. make notes of things like tire sizes, etc. most owner/builders are very proud of their cars and are happy to share. read the tech sheets in the magazines you read. study the build up threads here on the HAMB. subscribe to threads that are of interest to you and spend some time studying what goes where and why. send a PM to your fellow HAMBer and ask questions about stuff. get books that relate to the build style you're after. vern tardel, tex smith, don montgomery, andy southard jr.

if you cant find someone to talk to, whip out your tools and get to work. when i decided to build my first t bucket, i didn't like the basic frames diagramed in most plan sets so i went out and measured the frames on cars i liked. i noted frame dimensions, tire sizes, axle and spring types and placements, steering set ups, ride heights, etc along with detailed photos.

as you go along you'll become familiar with different components and how they play into the overall feel. you see the difference an A frame and 32 frame make with the same body style. how high boy and channeled affect a car. how a stock and dropped axle in conjunction with wheels and tires can dramatically influence a car's at***ude. hairpins Vs. wishbones, etc. hopefully, subconsciously you will begin to understand the subtle language of style.

make comparisons.
if you see two 32's that you like but are different, set them side by side on the table and play 'what's different?'. what makes one look the way it does as opposed to the other?

when you are ready to take the plunge, gather as much reference material as you can regarding the elements you wish to emulate. what do all these cars have in common? make a list and there you get your formula.

now the tough part of the equation. and the one that really is something that, for some, cannot be learned. the fit and finish.

there are some cars that just scream *****in' because of the fit and finish. the details. the use of paint and chrome and texture and finish. the little teeny tiny things that you might never think of that make all the difference in the world. its hard to quantify by doing anything other than staring. get images of things you like burned into your brain. this is another area where your pictures and notes come into play. its difficult to NAIL the details. sometimes less is more.

you can take a perfectly perfect unfinished hot rod and RUIN it by finishing it with the wrong paint, interior, or other detail like wheels, gauges, etc. sometimes one detail like a stupid shifter or steering wheel is like a giant pregnant zit smack dab in the middle of the forehead of an otherwise beautiful woman. its a completely subjective esthetic in the grand scheme, but this is the HAMB scheme. not all ideas are good ones.

i might also suggest that you study cars that you HATE or simply don't like. learn to know what you don't like, not just that you don't like it. dont do to your car what you don't like.

all in all, don't do yourself the disservice of plodding blindly into the garage and throwing a bunch of swap meet parts together in a haphazard and ramshcakle fashion. you'll be much happier as someone who realizes that some times its just better and easier to steal someone else's formula

 

your words give alot of inpriration to me... im always afraid to ask to many questions because i dont want to bother... maybe i should start..

 

Reverse Engineering - that's a good plan for a novice.

I have often pondered about what that magic something is that makes one rod look so damn good when there is another rod sitting right next to it with basically all the same sort of parts on it and maybe even nicely done, and yet it just does not look right.

It can be very hard to put a finger on exactly what went wrong. There are great, talented builders who still turn out odd rods. While there are others who just seem to nail it every time out.

Why put all your time, effort and money into experimenting with wether you can figure out the secret. ESPECIALLY if you have never built a rod before - what are the chances that you are going to "nail it" the first time around unless you really, really study the fine points - OR - take advantage of someone else's know-how.

 

thats the same reason i i have a large file of subed tech threads. let your freinds help with the heavy lifting

 

Or you could just get an S10 frame and put something on it.... Smoothies would be my first choice... .

 

It always strikes me as funny how novice rodders seem to flock towards the idea of a chasis swap. Like that is somehow easier.
Has anyone ever seen one of those cars that really do in-fact "nail it" and later come to learn that it had an S-10 frame under it?

 

Good point Cleatus!

Personally, I take a camera to every show I attend just to do***ent ideas that I like. I never seem to have a tape measure though, so I usually just put something in the pic for reference.

Last year at the Round Up, everyone kept looking at me funny when I sat my Dr. Pepper bottle on the ground next to their car before snapping a pic.
I was looking at ground clearance and ride height using whatever axle and springs. Now I have a photo album full of the adventures of Dr. Pepper! (my take on the roaming gnome! )

 

Excellent advice!
My only word of warning is that the tech sheets in magazine profiles are often wrong. I've had much better luck figuring out things like tire sizes by looking at cars in person.
Before I touched my first ground-up build (my '53 Chevy), I spent MONTHS looking very closely at photos of similar cars that I liked and similar cars that I didn't like, trying to decode what the subtle differences were. It worked. The car isn't perfect, but I have continued to keep paying really close attention to details and my next car (a '51 Chevy) will be exactly what I like.

 

Kinda like watching a guy choking at the table and talk about How to Do the Heimlich Maneuver

 

ALWAYS ask questions, thats what I do!

 

It may be just as important to look at things that don't appel to you and try to decide why they don't. Unless your building a clone you don't want to leave out your own ideas. But it still needs to look right. At least to you.

 

If you take a bunch of years to finish a project like I do, it gives you lots of time to go to big shows and look around for inspiration when you get hung up on the details. Like I looked around at thousands of cars to try to figure out what headlights I liked the most. Or I went to another big show and looked around at thousands of paint jobs to get different ideas for how I wanted to paint mine. You can copy things from lots of different cars and still make it your own style. They don't even have to be similar types of cars. You might see something that looks cool on a '50s car that might fit the bill on your '30s car. I got the idea for my balance bar brake pedal setup from an oval track race car. Old airplanes have a lot of cool stuff to get ideas from.

 

I always try to ask questions, most people that actually work of thier own cars love people to ask and talk about thier car. The only ones that I have run into that were ****s about it were guys who bought the car that way or paid to have everything done for them and you aren't going to get any info form them anyway!

 

If I see something that moves me or I really like, I'll ask the owner if it's O.K. to take a pic. of it with my phone camera, I haven't been refused yet and it usually stirs up a good conversation

 

Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, Mozart all had an innate ability which is defined as genius. You can copy all you want but true genius is inborn and original - not learned or copied technique. It's all about soul. So it is with hot rods - some, but by no means all, of my A list hot rod geniuses Tom Prufer, Cam Grant, Roy Brizio, Barry Lobeck, Cole Foster - all of these guys have 'the touch'.

Take the Italians for example - they, as a nation, are genetically incapable of building a purely functional object. The Germans have no problem with building purely functional objects - all engineering and no soul.

I'd rather have a flawed but beautiful creation over a coldly precise soulless, mechanically perfect automaton any day. It's all about the p***ion.

 

True enough, but when you go to college to learn to be an artist they will start by showing you the Master's works in hopes you may gleen a little something from them.

And even the old masters learned from someone before them.

We are not talking about building boring clones of other's masterpieces - If you do build it yourself, it will have "yourself" in it. Just use their stuff as an example to help you understand what works rather than hacking up old tin just to find out that you have added to the long list of abortion rods.

But you are quite right, It is about p***ion
and commitment
and just plagiarising other's stuff will not get you any of that.
No masterpiece was ever created by a lazy artist.

 

I like this theme. I especially like the compairison to "the masters art", to me there are a lot in common. True, budding artists try to learn from the masters, so should budding rodders. Kind of a "paint by numbers" rod build, pick a style you like that works (proven by a master". add a LITTLE of your own taste and go from there. As your experiace grows, venture out. Like artists, I feel not everone can do it, some have to (or should) never go beyond the paint by number art. But you never know till you get the brush wet.

 

Good point. I think many of us lose sight in our build, eventually giving in to something that sacrifices the integrity of the entire car (visually, anyway). If a certain look, era or whatever is desired, it is definitely good to stick to the particulars. A good example to me is early rods with big noses. I personally think the front tires should extend past the grill shell a decent amount, and I don't mean suicide perch extreme, but that can look good too. But IMHO I think it is a shame to see an otherwise nice rod with the grill shell and radiator poking out front, totally ruining the proportions of the car. Just stuff like this can easily happen even when not originally desired if no plan is stuck to.

 

That's solid advice. Here's another- tape measures don't lie. If you're looking at a non ford body that measures up close to model A or 32 dimensions at key points, you're looking at a unique hot rod that'll make jaded rodders do a double take.

 

Or you could be a dumb *** like me and jump in with both feet. If you go my way plan on changing directions on your build a **** load of times.

In all honesty, I would do it any other way. Every time you change direction you learn something new or learn what not to do. Just remember that you are building what you want. Keith

 

Nice post. I really agree with you. I really think that it applies to everything that a builder does. I have spent my life (from as young as I can remember) looking at the way things (from tractors to tables to cars to bridges) are built and what I liked or disliked about their aesthetics or function or style. I try to apply it to everything I build. Again Nice post, people can learn a lot from just paying attention.

 

may sound stupid but if you want to really measure on the sly. ...know your measurements from foot to knee, knee to hip etc. also, your hand and forearm. when you're walking around shows, etc. - make a mental note of things relative to these known measurements. even better, have a buddy take a pic with you next to it for scale. or as mentioned above, pics with anything for scale.

good way to accurately estimate kickups, ride heights, and so on. i used to think i could just eyeball these things but i really can't.

obviously, it's always simpler to ask - but that isn't always an option.

 

This is a great thread.

thanks
- Joe

 

That was great. It's all things that I know in my gut, but to see it all spelled out so eloquently (beautiful woman with a pregnant zit, etc.) is a refreshing reminder. It feels like a panic to gather all the parts I will need to me, but it's good to be reminded to consider everything ... not just the whole end product.

 

Really great topic! Less is more. Couldnt be more true.

 

you know. i have a dig cam at every show i go to. if i see somthing i like, snag a shot. i have 100's of pics that don't even show the car just one part i liked. one thing that i have seen is. try not to change directions with the car a lot. if you plan the car first then start. its going to same you a LOT of time and money. theres some things that you can't help. the longer you take to biuld the car the more chances your going to change it along the way. can be good can be bad. so... guess what i'm saying is get your game plan. try to stick to it. then again mabey i'm a fool.... i can't get any of mine on the road.

 

you never know what you will find out when you ask questions.....sometimes you'll end up with a good friend out of the deal....or some of those hard to find parts you've been looking for...... think of it as research... brandon

 

Ah So gr***hopper, remember the cheap parts come from China these days

 

Right on DBO - changing your mind or theme halfway through ends up co$$$ting a bundle. Where do you think half the parts at swap meets and on EvilBay come from? Change of plans - that's where. I know, I have a stash of 'what was I thinking' parts piled in the garage.

Swap meets are places where you take all the stuff you couldn't live without five or ten years ago, you sell it to the next guy who 'cannot live without it' for way less than you paid for them in the first place and come home with a wad of cash thinking 'didn't I do great'. If you're like me, you probably spend most of the cash before you even get out of the swap meet on other 'stuff you cannot live without'. If you don't, 'she who must be obeyed' probably earmarks it the moment you get home.

Careful research saves $$$ and never be afraid to ask - sure some guys have at***udes, usually based on some kind of insecurity, but usually it's not what you ask but how you ask it. "I'd really appreciate some help on figuring this out" is always a good intro.

 

When I built my roadster pickup, I started with a 2 door sedan body. I knew what I wanted to achieve, but I didn't have another roadster pickup or pickup to use as reference. I searched the internet and found about 40 good pictures---side profile shots, front shots, rear shots, of other peoples builds. I did a lot of measuring and "scaling" of these pictures untill I had the proportions figured out---and then I got really lucky. A micro brewery about 30 miles from where I live (Creemore Springs Brewery) had an original 30 or 31 model a pickup with their logo on the doors on display in a gl*** fronted building. I drove out and explained to the owner what I was going to do and asked if I could measure a few things on the truck. He was very helpfull, and so I made up a bunch of sketches of the pickup bed, fender spacers, etcetera, then drove out and spent a couple of hours measuring. I am very pleased with the way my truck bed (built from scratch) turned out, and that was the basis for my post on the HAMB about "how to build a model a truck box'.---Brian http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99950