"cryo" treating parts....

I have heard about it in the past, and have done some research on my own. However in all my time on the HAMB, I have yet to see a thread regarding this process.

Have any of you used cryo treatment on any of your parts? What is your opinion on the process, experiences, etc.....

If you have, what particular parts do you feel it is worth the extra investment?

Thanks in advance!

 

What's it supposed to do to your parts? I've never heard of it.
Darren

 

Here is a quick article (one of many if you use google) that explains a little about Cryogenics.

http://www.300below.com/site/flatout-apr04.html

 

We used to leave our axles,in the freezer,for about a month, before we street r aced them.. It aligns the grain structre of the metal, making it tougher,or so they say....but we never broke an axle,in the BBC Chevelle...

 

My brother works for a major city's transit authority, and they just did a real-world study on cryo-treating brakes on their buses. BIG gains in longevity. Big enough that the labor time alone is being considered a big savings, not even considering bus down-time and parts for a brake job.

-Brad

 

Had a machine that had strip steel, Not-deburred, running over the rollers at 700' per minute. I used D2, a very tough tool steel as a "tire" and had it cryo-ed. Never saw it become worn or scratched!
You would get better grain structures in thermal treatments, but it depends upon the alloy used. There are a lot of tricks to tempering good old carbon steel. Most of them rely upon having the correct amount of carbon and/or alloying elements, and then disbursing them out to stress and "lock" the grain. Face centered cubic and body centered cubic, might yield some info on material "sites".

 

I haven't heard of this in years, but I remember watching an episode of Newton's Apple (remember that one?) where they were discussing this. It greatly extends the life of metal, greater durability, etc. A lot of the company's customers had their engine blocks cryoed, and to prove their methods effectiveness, they would hand out disposable shaving razors to prospective clients. The Newton's Apple guy claimed that he had been using his 25 cent disposable razor every day for a month and it was still sharp. Go figure.
I haven't heard anything about it in years, and wouldn't know the first place to look for this service.

 

If I remember correctly, there was a place in Broken Arrow that does cryogenic treatment of automotive parts.

 

Alot of people in the offroad world do it. Mainly ring and pinions, things of that nature that see alot of torque/stress.

 

I have had some thoughts on this as far as doing the gears inside a early ford transmission to see if it may add some durability, I have used this process when I use to roadrace motorcycles, i had the steel friction plates cryo'd for the clutch to keep them from coloring over during long races, the process seemed to help for that use but i did have to do some extra fitting of the clutch plates where they slid into the basket since they did seem to shrink a couple thousands during the process. I can't remember the company I used but I'm sure there may be more out there by now.

 

me feel not so smart.

 

Once upon a time, several years ago, I was flipping through the yellow pages (here in Kansas City) and found a heading for "Cryogenics"...



"No WAY!!!" I exclaimed, and wondered if it was the "Cryogenics" I was thinking of (like Walt Disney's Head). Curious (and not bashful at all), I grabbed a phone and called the company.

I ended up talking to him for about half an hour - "him" being the owner/operator.

I guess the deal is that it does indeed align the grain structure at a molecular level in the metal, and makes it several times stronger. He said it was common in heavy-duty applications, and that NASA and the USAF treat all their landing gear this way. He also spun me a yarn about a group of guys who race Corvettes in Europe. They cryo'ed the brakes in their entirety (pads, too - not any rubber, though) for one side of the car as an experiment.

These folks would change out their brakes 4 times per race (pads, I'm assuming). On the untreated side, this was the case. On the treated side, they didn't have to change the pads out the entire race, and there was still wear left on 'em afterwards.

He also told me folks treat their rods, pistons, and crank this way a lot, too - especially in racing.

Interesting guy. And hell, an even more interesting process.

~Jason

 

I haven't heard about cryo in a while but if you think about it, doesn't the hardening make the metal more brittle? I guess if the USAF uses it on landing gear it must be pretty tough, if that's true.

 

Some motorsports sanctioning bodies DO NOT allow cry-o-treating of engine parts because the process makes the too durable.

 

when I sent my cylinder heads to Mondello, they had them cryotreated-after the machine work was finished. the valve guides in this motor are PERFECT, and they have a ton of miles on them. the valve seat is perfect, as well.

hindsight being 20-20, I should have had them do my crank, rods and pistons. the little motor would probably still be alive today.

 

Also, if you are looking to just do small stuff check out the gun scene lots of parts, barrels, receivers are cryo treated. It may be cheaper...

 

Well it sounds good but the closest I can get to cryo around here would be putting stuff in my ice chest for a couple days. Now, about how much does this stuff cost? Say, to do the heads. I'm all for longevity.

Edit: Oh, how is it done? Emersion in CO2 or sprayed with CO2 gas, what?

 

Apparently, the cooling part of the heat treating process is the part that makes metal stronger. Cryogenic Processing appears to be an extension of that.

Here's a great page all about it:
http://www.percryo.com/

Here's the pricing (as an example, if you're interested):
http://www.percryo.com/lg_eng_pricing.htm

 

Do you think it would help reverse or stabilize metal fatigue in older used parts like '30s-'40s Ford axles and gears,cranks, and rods? Would you have these parts shot peened and then cryoed? This is interesting stuff. What kind of costs are involved? What would be the effect on bearings? Would shrinkage be a problem as withe the motorcycle clutches? Does it work on all metals?

 

I posted some generic example prices above for reference. I'm assuming it would make 'em a HELL of a lot stronger.

You may ask those guys, or google "Cryogenic Processing, Metal" or "Cryogenic Tempering", and see if you can find a local and call 'em (or fire off an email to one of 'em) with questions.

These guys can give you more info in 5 minutes on the phone than you'd get surfing the internet for 3 days!

Interestingly enough, a lot of VW-motor-based homebuilt aircraft guys use this process on their V-Dub parts.

 

My engine builder is going to cryo my whole rotating assembly and the valve train, he swears by it. He told me about a some nitrous mountain motors where they were getting about six passes out of valve springs. After the cryo they getting sixty passes.
Mat

 

I had a set of brake rotors done on a F-150 used for towing, Never warped another rotor.

 

I have the machine to do this... just got it about two weeks ago... anybody interested in experimenting?

 

Thanks for posting that Abomination! Prices aren't too bad. Hummm.

 

Maybe on rods?

My equipment just won't do it.



~Jason

 

this is an aweesome process where they dip your parts in liquid nitrogen(like -900 degrees f) to harden em.serious 4 wheelers use this process on things that commonly break like yokes,ring gears,pinions.ive heard it can prevent bent rods too.yes,its expensive,andya dont really need it ,but in some spots,its 100%worth it.
Troy

 

Yeah, if I were going to send something in to experiment on, I'd do it with rods. They're WAY cheaper to ship than a crank.

~Jason

 

all i have to purchase is some liquid nitrogen and i am up and running... So if anyone is interested let me know, i wont charge for experimenting....

 

Ive read-up on a lot of Cryo stuff,but cannot get a definitive answer.
Would Cryo treating a brand new set of solid lifters(flat-tappet) for a 331-354 Hemi be advantageous,,,,Cacklefest Fuel Motor.
No burnouts or exhibition runs on this deal....just a whack of the throttle now & then.
Is this the same deal as Isky used to call his "Chilled Iron" lifters?
Thanks,
Troy

 

http://www.metalscience.com/techinfo_ASM.php

They explain the process well and how it works. Looks like it can't hurt unless you crack something cooling it too fast (hmmm should I throw a flathead V8 in liquid nitrogen and then have it magged?)