New cars in the 50's...

So my father in law is 67, and he's been a avid car guy ever since his teens. His father also owned a body shop in Muskegon, MI. He told me the other day that most news cars back in the 50's needed valve jobs and more serious overhauls with only 30,000 - 40,000 miles. Is that correct? He said that a lot of cars also had pretty serious rust even after five years. Thoughts?

 

They didn't have hardened valve seats, and the metallurgy was not as good, so I'm not surprised. They didn't have very good oiling systems, either. And as for the rust, salt spray went right into unpainted areas, and hand washing never got that out, so...

 

F1 trucks of the day only came with a 90 day warranty. Can you imagine buying a New truck or car now days like that.

 

Yep, It was normal to grind the valves on flathead engines on a major tune up. That was good for maybe 30 thousand miles.

One of the old Non Chev V8 owners arguments aganst having a Chev V8 in the 50's was the claim that you could only get 35/40 k before they needed an overhaul. That was usually spouted by the owner of a Y block Ford here locally.
I can remember that my dad and some of his friends would never keep a car over about 65 thousand miles in the Fifties and that car was usually three or four years old maybe older. 100 thousand miles on a car w/o major engine work probably got your photo in the local paper and most likely meant you were a salesman who was on the road all the time.

The bias ply tires that some of the guys here are so radical about lasted 15 to 25 thousand if you rotated them every 3 to 5 thousand. When I worked for Firestone in 1972 the top rated bias tire had something like a 25k warranty on it and few went that far.

The main difference in engines is the metal used. I have a 350R short block out of a 67 Cad Seville out in the shed that has over 100K on it and you can't
catch your finger nail on what serves as the wear ridge in the cylinders. The 56 Desoto Hemi sitting next to it has probably 1/3 of the miles and a wear ridge that is 10 times thicker.

You have to also remember that untill the late 50's oil filters were an option on most cars and were partial flow. That probably had a lot to do with it.

It was also common to drop your car off at the garage at 8 in the morning, have a ring and valve job done and pick it up and drive it home at 5 pm the same day. Try that now.

 

What body shop did he have here? I might know it as I've lived here all my life.

 

I've got about 20K on a set of bias plies right now.

 

John -

You're dad-in-law is correct. Even into the '60s (and maybe later), manufacturers recommended (demanded) a break-in period. The particulars varied, but the idea was to take it easy for the first few hundred miles, then do an oil change, etc. This was usually monitored by the dealer and if not followed, serious problems could - and did - arise.

As mentioned, metals and lubricants, and production techniques were generally inferior to today. Back then a car with 100K miles on it was considered done for. Overhauls after 50K miles were common.

As a hot rod related footnote to the break-in deal, there were some who thought the best way to break in a car intended for competition use (street or strip) was to drive the piss out of it right off the showroom floor. I suspect it was far from the right thing to do, but I plenty of guys were strong believers (or just fools).

 

I found a study some years ago about breakin on an engine, and they did find that a car driven real hard right after breaking in the cam consistantly made a few more HP, but didn't last nearly as long.

Wish I could find that study again. It was done on a dyno at a big name shop in the 70's.

 

I had a new 56 chev and I worked at a local gas station that was owned by a great guy who worked as a Ford mechanic during the day. When I came to the station from the dealership with the new Chevy he said pull it on the rack and change the oil. Any metal shavings or whatever would be in that oil. Take it out and run it hard and get it hot, but don't hold a steady RPM, just take it up to speed hard then back it down. Get it good and hot.Come back, change the oil again and repeat, run it hard, get it hot. Change the oil again and you are done.
It must have worked cause that was one fast little 265.When I sold it, it had 65 thousand miles and didn't burn a drop of oil.

 

Really, my wife's new Dodge is warranteed for as long as she owns it.

 

Is that correct? He said that a lot of cars also had pretty serious rust even after five years. Thoughts?[/quote]

When I started doing bodywork in the late 60's we were patching rust holes in the lower fenders , doors and quarters on cars that werent even 9 months old. It almost seemed like the 40's and 50's stuff faired better than the 60's. Inside most panels there was nothing to protect the bare metal. Undercoating was the state of the art and it was sprayed liberally.

 

At least they were priced right at the time. My dad's first new car was a 1954 Ford Customline 4 door...radio and heater...$1895. For some reason I have never forgotten that. The next one was a 1964 Malibu SS, 283, 2 barrel, 3 on the column...$2395.
The 54 was my first car in 1964 !

 

And on lots of the old flathead sixes you could leave the motor in the car when rebuilding it - lots of true 'shade tree' rebuilds back in the day. Drop the pan/crank, you could bore out the cylinders with the motor in place. Simple flathead valve jobs were straightforward too. At 20-30K miles you could put in oversized rings and new bearings; another 20-30K you'd rebore to .30 over.

 

Rebuilt the 318 in my 59 Fury after 118,000 miles. Bored it .030. I can remember my Dad telling me in the 50's that if you got 100,000 miles on a car you got your money's worth. .

 

Wow I had no idea. And wow Larry I can't imagine a year old car having rust holes.

To the guy who asked about the body shop, I believe it's still called Ade's? I think it's in Muskegon or right next door. My uncle in law sold it to some other guy who is reportedly doing a great job with it.

My father-in-law was telling me about about when he bought a new 1960 Volkswagen Beetle, and the engine seizing up a year later. He said he and his father had never rebuilt an engine before so they took it apart, sanded the crank, and put it back together. Car went about 40 feet and then the crank broke in half (or something like that). Ended up selling the car for $50.

 

I remember dad saying that stuff started breaking at about 15,000 miles....

 

Generally, 1950s cars were rushed into production!

Today you have several years of development and crash tests, and better plastics and paint materials to make cars with. Back then, as soon as they got the steel into a shape they liked, it went to the assembly line!

And of course that means big open spots of bare steel on the backsides of fenders, thousands of places for dirt to collect (inside fender lips, inside rocker panels, slung up by wheels into the "eyebrows" behind the headlights, etc) that kept moisture and dirt next to unprotected steel. You can see how rusting was a problem on a car not yet a year old in a tough climate.

 

Another thing that's improved since then is the sealing technologies. O-rings, gaskets, seals, clearances. You can thank Racing and NASA for lots of that.

 

And also all the alien technology that has leaked out of NASA into the big 3. (jk).

I do recall a lot of old cars when I was a kit all having low miles, probably all from being oil burners and getting parked.

 

rust???????????

 

In a lot of cases it depended on how well the car was kept, driven and maintained. My dad had several Chevies and Fords between 1950 and 1960. They were all garage kept, maintained and driven moderately. Usually put about 50 - 60 K miles on them before trading for a new car. Dealer always gave him top dollar on trades because they knew he treated the cars well and they had few problems. Engines didn't have the technology they used today so, usually at 60k - 80k they needed work. Some would last to 100k, but few went further.

Rust was a problem without the proper coatings and much more so if you lived in the snowbelt states. Having a garage really helped protect most surfaces and the paint. Just like every thing else we have to day, many things back then would be considered primitive by today's standards.

 

One of the first big things in longer engine life was chrome rings in the mid 50s. You never want 2 simular metals moving/wearing against each other like cast iron block and plain cast rings. Thats why crank bearings are softer than the crank or brass bushings in a starter. My Dad had a 58 Chev P/U with a 283 and at 100k still did not use oil. Was used everyday in his business and chaged oil every 1000. Better lubes and closer tolorances help too. 60's cars even in AZ had rust issues to, 62-66 Chevy P/U lower front fenders come to mind and my 65 AZ Ranchero has a couple of spots.

 

Anyone know the average miles driven annually back in the 50's?
Today 100K miles click off fairly quickly.

 

10k/year........In the 60s Chrysler had a 5 year/50,000 mile warranty....whichever came first.

 

Per capita income in 1956 was $1940.00

In 1963 it was $2449.00

The prices were no better then than they are now in relation to annual income. It takes about a years income to buy a new car. But the new cars have all of the things that weren't available to the average buyer back then (A/C, power everything, etc.)


Mutt

 

Someone stated facts about complete overhaul without pulling engine...Any one
on here old enough to remember the old portable crank grinders...call him up,
he'd come to your place and turn your crank with engine still in the car....
Any one else remember that?

 

YEP !! You could only do the rod throws though. Been kinda watching for one to add to my tool collection already got Sioux valve equip and a Van Norman boring bar. Worked at a autoparts jobber store in the early 60's and remember once in awhile one of the shop guys taking a Van Norman bar out to some shop to bore and sleeve one hole in the car.

 

Ade's Collision on Getty Street in Muskegon Heights. He's right on. I bought my first nice car. a '56 Bel Air 2 door post in '61 and the fenders above the headlights had already been rust repaired once. Couldn't stay ahead of the rust. The OEM's didn't do anything to protect the cars and trucks and Michigan was right on the forefront of ice removal with salt.

Thare were at least two bands of criminals at wor against the consumer.

Charlie

 

Quite seriously back then most cars were in the bone yard well under 100k. I worked in a Body Shop with a small yard and we would go pickup and drive some cars in to scrap when people called. Man we scrapped out some cool stuff. Just Crazy to think about!