i'm jus' wondering if anyone has done a quick snap on google and looked any of this stuff up. i did. i think i know what coe may be working with. i don't think its unreasonable to think that there might be potential for significant gains in mph through use of some rather simple technology. i dont that anyone here is purporting to have developed a 100% HYDROGEN POWERED vehicle. but i could be wrong. he just said he built a hydrogen cell (what does 'hydrogen cell' mean?) . exactly what it is and how he's using it is what is unclear. how they are being used out there in inventor land is not.
When you can demonstrate that you can start your "cell" by just willpower alone like "Joe" apparently can, then we might start being believers. Like others have said before, put up or shut up. Post of video or some real plans of what you got under your sleeve or your post is just another bunch of unbelievable, undocumented, not founded in completely known science, just like this whole idea appears to be. Until others can verify what the idea, then it isn't fact and it isn't science. It is just an unproven thought or idea and the basic idea behind this wacky prospect is so far away from known science, it can't possibly work. The simple fact is the science behind taking some energy and moving it around a little and getting it to the wheels of a car is not really that complicated or hard to figure out by even half ass people who know anything about real physics and how energy can be transfered from one place to another. Either "Joe" has found some new forms of energy not privy to anyone else yet besides maybe aliens, or this is just a bunch of BS. An engine that produces more power that is put into it completely goes against all know facts of science. You can't start with water and then get some energy out to make the motor run, no matter how you do it, and then still end up with just water just like you started. There isn't just some free magical energy in water waiting to come out somehow simply by means of willpower.
He is producing hydrogen and oxygen from water through the process of electrolysis. It's not complicated - and it makes perfect sense. You run an electric current through water and you end up seperating the two components, Oxygen and hydroge. However, as stated above, it is a negative energy process and will not yeild any sort of gain in terms of MPG.
Not to be the egghead, but I did just graduate from college last week. I was the oldest graduate there. Nothing produces more energy than it takes to process. [SIZE=+1]The first law of thermodynamics: Energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. The total amount of energy and matter in the Universe remains constant, merely changing from one form to another. The First Law of Thermodynamics (Conservation) states that energy is always conserved, it cannot be created or destroyed. In essence, energy can be converted from one form into another. [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]The [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]second law of thermodynamics states that "in all energy exchanges, if no energy enters or leaves the system, the potential energy of the state will always be less than that of the initial state."[/SIZE] And yeah, I still read the whole damn thread. Just call me sucker.
You are correct that the amount of energy is constant. However, you are discounting the millions of years where energy was applied (by the Earth itself) to the organic material that transformed it into crude oil. So yes, if we were to take leaves and transform them into Super Unleaded, it would cost more energy than it would make. However, with coal, natural gas, and oil, the majority of the work has been done and thus we just have to expend a minimal amount of energy to take it the rest of the way. John
Correct. "Refining" oil into gasoline is only one very small part of the "creation" process of gasoline. It takes a LOT of energy to create oil from organic material, and that is all done by the earth. So, in a sense, that is free energy much in the same way solar is free or wind is free. I guess you could look at it more as stealing energy.
This thread is draining my energy. I barely have enough left to walk out the door and head home now, but when I get there, I think I will have some more.
back when i was in school we used 2 make hydrogen bombs 4 fun fill an empty beer bottle 1/2 full w/H2O & some drain cleaner then drop some aluminium foil in the bottle & cap w/balloon hydrogen gas will quickly inflate the balloon tie off the balloon w/6" length of string light the string & float the balloon into the room of a serious & unsuspecting student quite a bang---remember the Hindenberg!
WOW !!! As stated the first 5 miles were wild and things started to change. The engine started to buck or surge with very large rpm changes and literally thru me against my seat belt. It got so bad I just took my foot completely off the pedal and rode the brakes to stop the truck. The truck left skid marks on the pavement every time the engine surged in rpm. Well anyway I manage to get it stopped and shut it off with the ignition key thank GOD. I retarded the timing and turn the gasoline back on and crossed my fingers and hit the key and the engine took right off revving to may be 4000 rpm and then gradually decreased to 700 rpm. I took a deep breath and put it into drive and the truck responded close to normal again. Made it to work a little late, but later is better than never the way I see it. After the day at the job and thinking what can I do to stop this erratic rpm oscillation I decided to disable the cell and drive home on gas. WOW !!! Comments – The current setup is not happening, I could not drive the truck in city driving, because I would be ramming the vehicles ahead of me and smoking the tires at every stop light. Still more work to do and that is going to start this weekend. Converting the engine back to a 2-barrel carb (hell who needs a 4 barrel with this setup) so to gain more room to setup the blind fitting arrangement. Going to machine a flat Aluminium plate to set between the carb and the manifold. The adapter will be cut with a section on the front side of the carb projecting out and have a solid Aluminium stub. The stub will be where the Aluminium transfer tube will attach via a short section of hose. Will update the group after the adapter and conversion is in place and some basic testing has been accomplished. Note to Adrain – there is No return fuel line on this vintage of truck. Only the fuel supply line. is this what you were looking for
But we eventually run out of crude because we can't make more. I'm not arguing with you here. My point was directed more towards the whole hydrogen cell made at home. Your post just provided a good jumping off point. And it is the sun that made all that crude, not the Earth. All energy comes from the sun. (okay, that part right there was arguing a little bit ).
12 volts from your battery going to 2 electrodes in a water container that can take up to boiling temp.s, separates hydrogen gas on the cathode (-) rod and oxygen gas comes off the anode (+) rod from H2O with a 1-3% solution of electrolyte. KOH is the best electrolyte, but you can use lye, sulfuric acid. KOH (Potassium Hydroxide) is a base for the electrolysis to happen. Buy at chemical suppliers. The combo of Hydrogen & oxygen gases mix together burn clean and output a high combustion. Called HHO gas or egas. They act like a catalyst to your gasoline or propane burning engines. As long as you burn the gas as you drive their is no danger of storing/compressing the gases in tanks (like propane) That is the whole idea of "On Board Electrolysis Fuel Cells". Only make enough gas as you need. After you build a hydro-booster it gets you to thinking, hey if this works why not make one that produces enough gas to run my car totally on water! That is the part the DOE, the Oil Corp.s do not want you to do. It will cut them off someday.So a gradual moving away from fossil fuels is on it's way. A hydrogen booster is the first step. 100% Water as a Fuel is the goal. Also remember "perfect love casts out all fear" the Bible says that. So Go for it Dude!
The first Hydrogen/Oxygen Generator was invented and patented on 1918, by Charles Frazer You might be thinking, if these hydrogen booster were so great they would have been manufacturing them all this time. Not so, , , , did you know that there are over 240 patents (since 1930) in the world on carburetors or fuel injection systems that get 100-250 MPG!!! and not ONE is being manufactured today! Do the math. If the average car today gets 20 MPG, imagine 100 MPG! that means the Oil Corps would lose 80%! then they make now. Instead of $25 billion dollar quarter profits, they would make only $5 billion. Also the US gov. makes about .50 cents per gallon, they would lose big revenues, so they are against any type of free energy. It would bankrupt America if water cars were out on the streets. Is the US Energy Dept. run by Oil Corp executives. YES. Do they tell the car manufactures on what they can make? YES. Does it all make sense? No. Who killed the electric car? Guess. That movie made no sense at all. I read Silicone Valley may be the new Detroit. They are working on electric cars, but can't start manufacturing them yet. In China there are 4,000 engineers working on the properties of Brown's gas, cars will be next, no doubt. This homemade fuel cell is about the cheapest you will find. I'd rather have you make your own. Everybody's results are different, every car is different. For under a $100 an weekend of free time, what do you got to lose?
<TABLE height=19 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=468 border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD>1805-2008: 203 years of turning water into fuel!</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE height=405 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=468 border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD>In 1800 water was turned into hydrogen and oxygen, using a battery. In 1805 the first car with an internal combustion engine burned hydrogen from water. Jules Verne wrote in 1875 that WATER would be the fuel of the future. And 2008 seems to be the year of water ! But very few know the story of water fuel technology development. Why not? Patent after patent has been filed, in the U.S. and abroad, attesting to the reality of this awesome, non-polluting fuel source. It could even reverse global warming by ending filthy fossil fuel emissions, while releasing excess oxygen to the atmosphere. Read the first book ever written on the 200-year history of running cars on water. To receive a copy, which includes a DVD of inventor interviews, send $22.00 (USA) or $28.00 (intl) to: Water Fuel Museum P.O. Box 55558 Lexington KY 40555 or our Paypal account: waterfuelmuseum@yahoo.com (Donations to our work are needed and appreciated) Webcast: http://www.blogtalkradio.com (search "water fuel") </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
And there's this car that runs on water... It runs on water man... On water. Seriously, I actually looked at those blue prints. they're pretty vague about how this whole thing hooks up and works. How about some actual pictures of this thing hooked up. I've seen the blue prints, now lets see some pics. If it's gunna cost me a hundred bucks to build, I'm going to need a little more incentive to build one. And yes, I would actually build one. I'm that easily amused.
Money does seem to be the only thing the can produce energy out of thin air. Start waving some green around and it is amazing how much energy people seem to suddenly have. But, to try to so sum this up a bit. Yes, it is very well know that you can make hydrogen gas with electricity and water and then burn the hydrogen (re-combine with the oxygen) to get back some of that power. So, if you start with a very wasteful gasoline motor and have it make a little electricity to break apart the water to get some hydrogen gas to burn, it is possible to do. But you can't start with just water, have the engine produce electricity to break it apart and then burn it again to get he power back and still have a positive gain in energy you would need to make the car go and to over come all the loses associated with real world friction, heat, kinetics, braking, radio, etc., etc, etc. Just not possible. Now what is possible is to do this same thing and to produce a little extra hydrogen gas to help improve the gas motors mpg because you are taking something that is so wasteful and recovering a little of the completely wasted energy and getting some back with a bit of electricity and water. In an ideal world with no loss factors, the energy you would get from burning the hydrogen would be exactly the same as it would take to brake it apart - therefore nothing left over to run the motor and propel the car - nothing left over to keep the system going - and no way this works to power a car all by itself. If energy efficiency is the primary goal, it is just better to start with a much more efficient engine/car than try to make a total energy waster slightly better - Prius anyone?
Spot on, Stude Trucks! Bort62, if you are serious on this, you might look into low temp fuel cell types of "combustion" and get away from the 30% efficient, 70% heat infernal combustion system. Electric drives have their limitations, but aren't bad in the efficiency dept.
have you guys not noticed that he is typing in broken english? kinda reminds me of the fraudulent emails you get from over seas trying to buy something high dollar from you. this dude is jerking our chains and we bought into it hook, line, and sinker. its nice to stretch your mind out a little and think about something that might be plausible but we are not far enough advanced to pull this off where its feasible. it might become fact in the next few years but right now its a no go. so mean while im reading this guys post and imagining me ordering from the guy behind the counter at a Sushi Bar.....................
COE---"releasing excess oxygen to the atmosphere"? Electrolysis yields 2 Hydrogen atoms and one Oxygen atom for each water molecule. Burn that hydrogen, and two atoms combine with one of oxygen to make water. Where's this extra oxygen coming from?
No one is talking about real hydrogen fuel cell's here. A real hydrogen fuel cell has a lot of potential to power an electric car. Not going to disagree with you there.
the hydrogen thing still has a lot of bugs to work out,however what I found to be really interesting is the newer BMW's that have a complete solenoid driven valvetrain.Thats right,no cams,just electric solenoid opening and closing the valves when the computer tells them so any kind of curve its seeking can be achieved,this is true and is on the new 7 series I believe.Whats next solenoid driven engines?
I did'nt do well in chemistry and far from knowledgable in this area. But by feeding hydrogen into a combustion chamber in combination with an alternate combustable source, are'nt you in essance making a traveling hydrogen bomb if not done properly?
hugo chavez does sell gas here it called conoco and its a damn shame. no price cut there. just more money for another enemy of the usa.
The Jalopy Journal
