not my...<TABLE height=161 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=773 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=241> This cell ran for about a year. I used SS screen for the cathode (-) hydrogen gas & just 1/4" rod for the anode (+) I figure the screen would take place of SS discs with many holes drilled. The egas seams to come off the edges of the SS (stainless steel) It ran 12 volts, inwhich cooks the electrodes but steam cleans the carbon out of your fuel injection system. Now we go 2 volts. </TD><TD width=204> Why is it colored red-brown? They call it "anode mud" oxidized iron and minerals. Way less now due to change over to 2 volts. </TD><TD width=328> Before photo and one year later. The unit will make red sludge that you will have to clean out once a month. I made mine to take out easy. New plans reduce this problem with the use of neutral plates to absorb voltge. Voltage in electrolysis equals heat. 1.8 volts id best. 2-3-4 volts OK. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Simple Wiring One side (cathode) (-) is grounded to the car's frame the other (anode) is hooked up to a 25 amp fused thick wire (10-12 gauge braided copper wire, buy a spool at the auto parts store), 12 volts (+). I hooked up a simple auto accessory relay ($5.00) and a dash mounted switch ($5.00) What the relay does is, it allows the switch to get an 1 amp or so, current , while the relay turned on takes up to 25 amps coming straight form the battery (+). This way you can use a 5 amp rated cheap switch rather than a 25 amp switch. Remember the more amps the thicker the wires need to be. DC needs thick wires or you start to lose amperage. To have efficient egas, you only need 2 volts, the extra 10 volts does nothing but heat up your cell water. I'm no electronic wizard, so I left it simple. There are circuits on the hydroxy yahoo group files. I say "join today and learn all you wanted to know about running a water powered car. <TABLE height=38 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=694 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=358> Photo of the DC pulsed motor Controller </TD><TD width=336>DC pulsed motor Controller A simple solder kit for $22.00plus shipping. It can take 12 volts up to 25 amps, it has a 555 mosfet that pulses the signal much like AC does already. The pulsing action at the right frequency (about 8, on a pot. 1-10) helps in more egas production. The Hydro Booster will work without it, but to add more egas what the hay. You hook up a Pot, to the circuit and you dial it in till it bubbles the most. This is why clear filter housing is good for experimenting, because you can watch the bubble action and show friends. They won't last forever, much like SS 4" pipe would be best for long time applications. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE height=38 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=750 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=368>Photo of the New Hydro-Booster hooked up. </TD><TD width=382> I have a one way check value, so engine by gasses will not come back into unit. So guys complain about backfire, I never encounter backfiring. I have it hooked to the vacuum in at idling and also to the throat of the carb. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE height=69 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=750 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=324></TD><TD width=426>Another way to hook up the outgas hose is to your vaccum system. "Tee" into the PCV chec value coming out of your manifold cover, that goes into your carburator, thi s way you don't lose any of the hydrogen/oxygen egas, also you will need to add a airline that goes to the bottom of your cell. Have the air line go into your cell at the bottom so it helps push the egas through to your fuel source. Put a value on the air in, so you can play around with little or alot of bubble action. You only need a slight pinhole to achieve the bubble action. The brawny booster works good so far. I have not checked my mileage lately. You can also install a MAP sensor potentimeter and adjust down your air to fuel ratio (14.7 to 1) to (14.7 to 100:1) by turning a dial. Bypass your oxy. sensor too. Don't try it at home. You can buy the plans here, but not from me. I don't sell anything yet, or may never. I'm just handing out the hints to be a successful happy fuel saver. Now the Electrolyte It's not a atomic separator/fuel cell, it's just a battery. You got it all installed. With the filter housing you can use 4" 3/8" 'U' bolts from any hardware store. I made a 1/8" steel plate holder. MacGiver it baby. Gerry Rig helped me. See photo above. I use 12 volts with 25 amp fuses as to not burn up my DC pulsar. Peter has 80 amp fuses? Sounds like a breaker box fuse? He uses 2 volts at 70 amps or more. Fill the unit with rainwater or any water, some use distilled, it does not matter, you will be taking it out to clean it up, once your amps go down. Fill up to the top of the switch plates with water and 1-3% KOH (Potassium Hydroxide) from a chemical supply house. You will pay more for hazardous shipping than you will for the chemical. We found this is the best electrolyte, it is a base, rather than an acid. Sulfuric acid works but corrodes things faster. Lye works too, but puts off weird fumes and also attacks and melts some plastics. ALso once you get the unit going you never add electrolyte again until you clean it out. You just add water, because the electrolyte stays in the container and does not separate into H-O gas. Next. Start the car and drive. A good way to check gas mileage is to fill your tank to the top (top it off) go drive around for a week and fill it up again to the top, at the same pump at the same gas station. So the car is level as the last fill up. Read the gas pump meter for gallons. And there you have it. Miles Per Gallon.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
You might try doing a little research before you try to dazzle me with your kindergarden droolings. Now go away, before I taunt you a second time!
Whoever has the "REAL" formula, should quickly tell everyone on here about it and how it works and how to replicate it to save their own life. Don't believe me? Just ask Stanley Meyer............oh no wait, you can't, coz he was poisoned at a U.N. dinner party shortly after scoring a 50 million dollar military research fund, which also coincided with the ALMOST release of his Water Combustion Adapter Kit ($1000). OOOOOOh, they are good at squashing secrets.....whoever "THEY" are.
www.fuelfromh2o.com Best one I've seen. No book, no plans. A complete unit with 100% money back (if installed by their installers) Check the video out. Running the system on a '69 truck, prices are listed in the HHO GENERATORS link
In the first post, wasnt coe saying how great and "smooth" it works? And he later said he had put 110 miles on the system? And then after that, he made a post about how it doesnt work and that the rpms are such a surge that its unsafe to drive on a road? So which is it? it works great, or its terrible? And im pretty sure these last lengthy posts of his are copy and pasted from somewhere else, and not his own words.
Everybody is getting twisted up about nothing here. Big deal. Electrolysis is used to break water down into hydrogen and oxygen. The energy used to generate the electricity comes off the motor's alternator (or aux alternator). You then feed the hydrogen and oxygen into the engine as a supplimental fuel. Sounds reasonable as long as you've got a enough energy off the alternator, enough high quality water (you can't use tap water) and an efficient enough cell to break down the water quick enough to feed the motor. There are MANY of technological issues around pulling this off. Could you suppliment your gasoline supply to increase mileage? Maaaaaybe. Could you generate enough H2 to run the motor on only H2 as its going down the road? Probably not. The diesel freaks do something like this with propane and nitrous oxide injection (propane is the extra fuel, nitrous oxide brings in the extra oxygen) to generate more power....gasoline dudes do the same thing with gasoline and nitrous oxide........the reason COE's engine may be accelerating like mad but is very uncontrolled is that he might be adding enough extra fuel and oxygen to get momentary bursts of energy/power. Not unlike a nitrous motor....you have to tune for this providing you can make enough H2 to put in your ear. COE will smoke his motor if he keeps it up...... Things to ponder...... #1. If it was that easy everybody could and would do it. #2. If it worked so well then somebody, someplace would have demonstrated it well enough to obtain funding for legitimate testing, published the results and most likely gained wide spread acceptance....if it worked so well and especially if you didn't have to 'will' you car to start. #3. The Mythbusters debunked the idea of running the motor purely on H2 generated by the electrolysis cells found on the internet.....but they did, however, run it on H2 straight off a tank ....that is until a carb backfire spoiled the moment. #4. IF you could carry enough high quality distilled water (Oh yeah, you have to use distilled water......which by the way takes lots of energy to make) and IF you could generate enough eletricity to make enough H2 gas to suppliment the gasoline and IF you could tune the package well enough to run daily it would be interesting to see if the supplimental fuel gained enough mileage to off-set the mileage loss caused by the drag on the alternator. In the end its still comes down to basic physics. You might be able to increase you fuel mileage but you can't gain net energy from this system, especially when you use distilled water as your power source. -Bigchief.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fuel_injection Not running on hydrogen. Running on gas, but supplemented with hydrogen. One of the reasons that these types of systems are not very prevalent is that if you produce too much hydrogen, your mileage will go down. So both sides of the fence are right. It takes a lot of tuning usually to increase the efficiency of an engine. I have only really messed with this in diesels, so I have no idea about a gas engine. The point is to use the combustible properties of hydrogen to allow you to run leaner and therefore increase fuel economy.
Ok I can't stand it anymore. If you have water just running out of the exhaust why oh why pray tell great minds of perpetual motion and rocket science are you letting it just go to the ground? What a waste of good fuel! And aren't we going to creat a flood and fuck up this global warming deal? Jeez I am so confused. Why do I have to pay for plans that are free all over google? Where is the real world accredited testing done by someone other than anyone named Bubba or Sven amd Ole'? (apologies to anyone named Bubba, Sven or Ole') BTW I can provide this proceedure and oversight for any of you young Mr. Wizards out there to prove how great thou art in you efforts of the next Hindenburg Corporation. If and I mean if any or one some or all this shit can be proven. Then I want that Watt character "ole mister 746 per hp" and that Newton fucker hung by the roughest rope and the highest tree. I knew those fuckers were liars I just knew it. Throw in the old prof's for lying to me too. I am going to build a great big reactor thingy generator this weekend for my crew cab and by what I have read I should go from 14-17 mpg to over 35-40 according to everything. And God knows you should believe everything you read (got in the obligatory religous reference LOL). Oh and I am coupling cow and new high power magnets, preheated intake air from the exhaust, connecting all of the exhaust and putting it all directly into intake stream like that other guy on here did, and then I am adding some NOS along with the technology put forth in this thread to further increase my mileage. So if you see a black dually doing 250 MPh bucking and lurching smoking the tires get out of the way. HAMB SPECIAL: Just paying it forward As well if you all will just send me $5 dollars each I will provide you with a sure fire tip sheet on how to achieve better fuel mileage with previously unknown secret tips like these as a teaser... Don't drive unless you really need to.... slow down 5 mph.... put 10 extra pounds air in your tires, hell try 20.... and many other more proven tricks. Half of all the money will be given to Ryan to buy more cardboard to make templates and thus homeless materials for building shelters in Austin. Kind of like habitat for humanity of sorts in support of Fecals the bum. The rest obviously for email and overhead expenses to email everyone the tips and miniscule compensation all of my hard work.
Actually here is a link to a site where they actually are doing it, but they call it running it on water. Its a suppliment added into your system through the air intake. check it out.http://water4gas.com/2books.htm?hop=enigmanuma
Bigchief nailed it. The scientists here are arguing total energy efficiency, the novices are arguing gas mileage & using the term efficiency. Both are partially incorrect. Something nobody has mentioned (at least I didn't see it in the 9 pages I skimmed) was the heat generated. So the scientists out there can rest assured no laws of thermodynamics are being broken - a bunch of energy is being released as heat. What's really happening here is replacement. In theory, you use the alternator to generate electricity to "crack" the water into HHO. This generates a lot of heat. It releases the HHO. Some of these "systems" simply plumb the HHO gas into the intake manifold directly (big vacuum leak, but instead of drawing in non-combustible air, you draw in a combustible mixture). Basically, you replace the air in the air-fuel mixture with HHO. So potentially, you have a bigger bang for a given cylinder charge. All well & good except your mixture is crap & timing is probably well less than optimized. The only possible way I can see this working reasonably well is on an EFI vehicle where you have some ability to control both timing and fuel by trick-fucking the computer somehow. I could easily see the O2 sensor reading this burn as lean & adding fuel and you end up losing mileage if you're not careful. I think there is also a tiny/small power gain simply due to the water vapor being ingested into the engine by these "systems". At the end of the day, the average person (unconcerned with the laws of thermodynamics) could see an effective increase in gas mileage - this does not mean the engine is more efficient, the process is conserving energy, or there's a magic bullet. It simply means you use less gasoline to travel a specific distance because the air-fuel ratio is altered due to the incoming air being partially replaced by HHO gas...
There are many reasons we are not doing this on a large scale: 1. You need to use distilled water, which requires a lot of energy to produce. 2. You need to add an electrolyte to the water (such as H2SO4 or KOH), to aid the electrolysis process, which is extremely slow with pure DI water. 3. The chemicals (electrolyte) you need to buy cost money and take energy to produce. 4. If you add the wrong electrolyte or concentration of electrolyte, to the water, it can produce less oxygen or less hydrogen. 5. Hydrogen concentrations as low as 2% are extremely flammable when mixed with air. 6. Hydrogen does NOT have to have a "spark" to be ignited. It can be ignited by hot surfaces ( engine cpt? ) or even static electricity. 7. Oxygen can saturate materials and make them more flammable or make materials burn that will not normally burn, even metal which is porous by the way. 8. Oxygen cleanliness, and use of correct components, is essential as small contaminants (even dust) and fossil fuels become extremely flammable in an oxygen rich environment. 9. If you use water that is not pure, such as salt water, chlorine gas can be released which is extremely fatal. 10. Oxygen cleanliness components are extremely expensive and heavily QA controlled. 11. It takes a 480V source, a large rectifier and thousands of DC amps to make 100-200 SCFH of oxygen and 200-400 SCFH of hydrogen. It also requires a seperate water cooling supply due to the heat produced by the large flow of current and a constant flow of distilled water. Keep in mind this is Standard Cubic Foot per Hour where carburetor air flow is much higher and in the Standard Cubic Foot per Minute scale. 12. Number 10 is the reason why only about 4% of the world's industrial hydrogen is produced this way. Energy loss during the process is on the order of 30-50%. It is very costly and inefficient to produce hydrogen and oxygen this way and it's use is limited to very specific industrial applications. Oxygen, hydrogen and electricity are three things you shouldn't mix without a good amount of knowledge. The results can be swift and final. I respect these enough to not even try. There are too many variables involved. The numbers stated above are fact, based on my personal experience and I just don't see 12VDC producing enough hydrogen and oxygen to make a big difference. Not saying it can't work, just saying we're a long way away and ignorance, combined with a little complacency, can sometimes be a very dangerous thing. Keep in mind, everyone pushing this, like the old useless Tornado, is trying to sell you something. If it worked that well someone would have a patent and would be selling kits instead of drawings and plans. My experience in this field: 7 years on 2 Nuclear Subs as an Operator and Mechanic 7 years qualified as an Oxygen Cleanliness Inspector 2 schools on Electrolytic Oxygen Generator Operation and Maintenance. 7 years Operating and Working on Treadwell Electrolytic Oxygen Generators. www.treadwellcorp.com 11 years as an Industrial Nuclear Power Plant Operator and Supervisor
My experience in this field: 7 years on 2 Nuclear Subs as an Operator and Mechanic 7 years qualified as an Oxygen Cleanliness Inspector 2 schools on Electrolytic Oxygen Generator Operation and Maintenance. 7 years Operating and Working on Treadwell Electrolytic Oxygen Generators. www.treadwellcorp.com 11 years as an Industrial Nuclear Power Plant Operator and Supervisor[/quote] Now that's a hell of a place to be coming from Finally someone with legitament expirience in the field. That should just about close this misadventure, shouldn't it?
I'm running my Citroen powered trike on banannas mashed up with a little granola and low fat natural greek youghurt (must be the live culture yoghurt though). I normally get around 200 miles to every 5 pounds of banannas + 1/2 pint of yoghurt. Performance is pretty good - 0 to 60 in 4 seconds and a top speed of 300 mph. This is excellent from a 602cc engine. Running it on petrol the figures are 0 - 60 in 11 seconds, 60 MPG and a top speed of 90 mph. Really - you should try it. Just blend all that shite up and pour it in the petrol tank. No other mods needed.
All right, I want to get in on this, so I filled up my car's gas tank with water this morning, and now it won't run. Now what, geniuses?
I was reading an old popular mechanics mag from the 50's I think it was 57, and Smokey was the technical editor. The article was a response to the rising costs of fuel and the depleting supply. He mentioned that cars powered by hydrogen would be the norm by 1970. You remember Smokey, he wrote the Bible on the small block chebby.
This thread may have its laughable moments but at the same time has to be one of the most informative threads I have ever read. I have learned more from this thread than I did in my high school chemistry class taught by the baseball coach. As for great minds, some of the greatest minds went undiscovered in the sands of time. They were outkast from their schools, churches and communities in which they lived for the thoughts and ideas they had. I have no doubt there are minds such as those on this board. Etching out inventions in their backyard garages and basements around the world. If they want to use this forum to share what they've discovered I applaud their courage.
My son has an imaginary friend called BB that lives in the storm drain out front and he hasn't eaten in two years, no one believes him either.
Adjustablejohnsons, of course you can, and after you go to the doctor they can give you something to take care of that, and then stay away from SRC (ewww).
I tried that, and it didn't fucking work! Seriously, you get a bunch of nerds in a room, and they can "prove" or "disprove" any theory, at least on paper, but does any of it really matter, if none of them have never actually felt a human female breast?
Anybody know where that post is where the guy proposed running his exhaust straight into his carb throat for an el cheapo turbo?
The Jalopy Journal
