That is probably because he blew himself up with that jerry rigged hydrogen gas bomb he made. If you want to improve your gas hog a little, this might help some, no question, particularly if you let it sit around idling all day for some odd reason. But, if you really want to save some gas: 1) stop driving like an aggressive nut case no matter what you are driving 2) get a smaller, lighter vehicle as weight is the biggest determiner of fuel usage 3) get a car that is actually engineered properly to save fuel like a Honda or Prius. The people that make those actually understand science and that 1+2 = 3 and always will no matter how many people can't understand that and wish that might change.
I read most of the arguing on the " I made a Hydrogen cell" thread for those who are not so full of shit there eyes are brown I'd like to tell you what I know and try to work together to figure this hydrogen thing out and hell maybe one day be free of oil. Now alot of people where asking for schematics/plans for a cell what I did was get a plastic cheese container "non condictive" bout half gallon of water threw in a fist full of baking soda. In the plastic lid I placed 2 four inch long galvi bolts and hooked up my car battery charger 1 bolt positive 1 blot negative...the more amps/volts(power) I placed to the blots the more gas came off and subsequently heat also. Now the bolts quickly were corroding so I switched to hooking up my charger leads to 2 stainless plates bout 1 inch wide 4 inches long 18 guage much better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! produced alot more gas Now dont let them touch of it will blow up like no other. With a big bang which is the hydrogen and oxygen exploding......have yet to try splitting gas from only water! You can run a 1/2 plastic tube as your outlet thru the container top into a bucket of water to watch the gas escape or into your intake! In your car the more amps being prodiced the more gas... but during my minor research I have discovered a 20 page article on hydrgen in the internal combustion engine and an ac cobra at bonnevile that ran on hydrogen. I will try and find links to share with you. From what I read dirrect injection is the best so there is not built up hydrogen in the intake and hydrogen has the btu of 50,000 and gas has 16,000 Also otimply you would have flat top pistons so there is no swirling in the combustion chamber and also if you have carbon/hot spots in your engine that can ignite the hydrogen prematurely, because it has a low flash point. Brokemotorsports.com was one website I went to My final words are this is a traditional hot rod forum I would like to find alternative affordable energy to run my old cars on instead of going broke...and on the alternative energy note. Does anyone have the recipe to ferment grass clippings into alcohol..?. henry ford mentioned about formenting chumash a weed into fuel alcohol...and the stock 4 banger can run on many fuels! Anyone here have experience with these fuels/also running propane/home brew/hydrogen recipies schematics ? Does anyone know of any harmful/negative longterm affects of hydrogen in the gasoline engine? thank you
I read most of the arguing on the " I made a Hydrogen cell" thread for those who are not so full of shit there eyes are brown I'd like to tell you what I know and try to work together to figure this hydrogen thing out and hell maybe one day be free of oil. Now alot of people where asking for schematics/plans for a cell what I did was get a plastic cheese container "non condictive" bout half gallon of water threw in a fist full of baking soda. In the plastic lid I placed 2 four inch long galvi bolts and hooked up my car battery charger 1 bolt positive 1 blot negative...the more amps/volts(power) I placed to the blots the more gas came off and subsequently heat also. Now the bolts quickly were corroding so I switched to hooking up my charger leads to 2 stainless plates bout 1 inch wide 4 inches long 18 guage much better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! produced alot more gas Now dont let them touch of it will blow up like no other. With a big bang which is the hydrogen and oxygen exploding......have yet to try splitting gas from only water! You can run a 1/2 plastic tube as your outlet thru the container top into a bucket of water to watch the gas escape or into your intake! In your car the more amps being prodiced the more gas... but during my minor research I have discovered a 20 page article on hydrgen in the internal combustion engine and an ac cobra at bonnevile that ran on hydrogen. I will try and find links to share with you. From what I read dirrect injection is the best so there is not built up hydrogen in the intake and hydrogen has the btu of 50,000 and gas has 16,000 Also otimply you would have flat top pistons so there is no swirling in the combustion chamber and also if you have carbon/hot spots in your engine that can ignite the hydrogen prematurely, because it has a low flash point. Brokemotorsports.com was one website I went to My final words are this is a traditional hot rod forum I would like to find alternative affordable energy to run my old cars on instead of going broke...and on the alternative energy note. Does anyone have the recipe to ferment grass clippings into alcohol..?. henry ford mentioned about formenting chumash a weed into fuel alcohol...and the stock 4 banger can run on many fuels! Anyone here have experience with these fuels/also running propane/home brew/hydrogen recipies schematics ? Does anyone know of any harmful/negative longterm affects of hydrogen in the gasoline engine? thank you
http://www.clean-air.org/Hydrogen%20Cobra Story/Hydrogen Cobra.htm The book "Hydrogen Fuel for Surface Transportation" (Reference #1) is worth a look.
Refer to my post about the methane cell again. All kidding aside, I really wouldn't be surprised if there is a fairly simple, cheap way to make this work well enough to greatly reduce your gasoline consumption - perhaps like diesels running waste vegetable oil, you'd need to drive on gas while the system warms up and then switch over - but I think the odds are good that the way that works best is patented, classified, and the inventor is chatting it up with Jimmy Hoffa right now. The concept at least makes sense, they run vehicles on propane so why not another flammable gas. Can anyone come up with figures for say, your typical small block 350, how much hydrogen would it require to operate normally? I have to think it can be calculated both how much you need and how much you can generate from a given size/type of source cell - IE using a tank of size X with Y amps going through it. Which is the other thing that wouldn't surprise me - to run entirely on the hydrogen you may need either amperage beyond what one can easily apply in a self-contained vehicle, or through a cell so large you'd need a large truck to haul it around. All I can say is if you can really make it work, don't let Exxon find out.
I'm pretty sure that fermenting your own alcohol is illegal... Not saying it isn't really fucking cool or a damn-good idea... Just maybe a bit illegal on a federal level.... Anybody have any good info on that old-assed carb that pre-vaporised fuel and then disappeared...??? I think something similar happened to the inventor... Also, being scared and ill-informed of "crazy new science and technology" is kind of like those rotten-toothed fuckers saying that putting Fluoride in the drinking water was a "Communist mind control plot"... ""Just like the 50's,,, BRO..."" hahahah.... This thread was an entertaining read, none the less....
I think a few might have missed this post in the flurry of posts. Read number 11 and 12. That's why it can't be done solely with a cell. Machines that make that much H2 and O2 are not portable. They require a constant supply of very pure DI water, a 480V source and cooling water ( cooled by a chiller ) and weigh thousands of pounds. The cost of these machines, to do this SAFELY, is astronomical. They are also only 50-70% efficient when it comes to energy. The only way would be using storage tanks. Because of the inefficiency of electrolysis most of the H2, that is produced commercially comes from fossil fuels, specifically natural gas. It's just not feasible to do this on a large scale, as you're consuming fossil fuels anyway, it's still very inefficient, requires very expensive components and is too dangerous with so many variables involved. This is not a new idea as submarines have been using electrolysis, since 1959, to produce their oxygen supply. Just another case of people taking advantage of other people in a time of need ( remember Y2K and the Tornado fuel saver) to make a quick buck.
I'll probably regret this but... Have you done any experiments on how much hydrogen is produced by your method and over how much time. What I mean is I could mount a plastic keg on the grill of your car (like a gasser). Could you head out in the morning, toss in a hand full of baking soda, turn it on and let it heat up like a couple of glow plugs and head off? Repeat the process on the ride home? Sounds too simple but if no one has asked, who knows. I ran LPG in England for years without any issues. LPG has a much lower burn temp than hydrogen so, I would imagine that it wouldn't take much. You would need a regulator to lend some kind of consistency to the pressure. Let the heckling commence. Link H. Fixer
Hydrogen is a very small molecule and it wants to escape - thru metal tanks, valves, plastic pores, etc. So storing hydrogen is tough. And there's no such thing as a hydrogen well - it has to be produced somehow. The second law of thermodynamics and good engineering principles basically say this sort of thing is a net energy loss, unless you are somehow capturing energy otherwise wasted. You can cook hamburgers on your exhaust manifold, (wrap in foil, please!) and this is 'free' heat because it would otherwise be wasted. If you had a bunch of 'free' electricity that you can use to crack water into H and O2, then great. Otherwise the inefficiencies of the process mean the energy input would be greater than the energy you would get out of the re-combining (burning) the hydrogen and oxygen. And anyone who tells you different is full of shit or trying to scam you. I've seen a bunch of both.
I think this is where the smart folks are missing the point generally. Nobody is trying to violate the second law of thermodynamics, or basic physics. These gas generators generate much more than gas - they generate heat - lots of it. So the energy is accounted for, it's just not being used (your wasted exhaust manifold heat too, right?). I doubt anyone can self-generate enough gas to operate the engine solely on hydrogen. As mentioned, challenging (at best) to store in gaseous form. What folks are doing - all those guys on youtube & eBay scams - is augmenting the air ingested by the engine with a more volatile gas. If that means the output of the engine is slightly higher in terms of less gasoline used for a given distance driven, they perceived they've increased their mileage. Many folks mistakenly think better mileage means better efficiency, but that's not always the case. In this case, your total energy consumption may actually be higher for a given energy output from the engine, but the portion of the combusted fuel being used as gasoline may in actuality be lower... I don't think it's viable on a carbureted engine - I think it's only viable on an EFI and then only if you can work the electronics to take advantage of it. I could very easily see most EFI systems reading the exhaust gas as lean and actually adding more fuel leading to poorer milege & performance...of coure, there are ways to trick-fuck the computer too...
The chrome in the stainless steel will make the water contaminated with hexavalent chromium, poisonous stuff. be careful experimenting and disposing of the excess water. I'm sure we have enough engineers on here to figure out what alloy would work best, and not produce dangerous by-products. Arm and Hammer washing powder will work better for the water conductivity.
The energy wasted is from generating the heat, not just being hot. Using the tranny cooler will just get rid of the heat faster, not prevent it from being generated in the first place. "I don't think it's viable on a carbureted engine - I think it's only viable on an EFI " I suppose you could mess with the jets or the mixture screw to lean up the mixture. You might see a decrease in gas usage then.
For starters, I think the only way to safely run a car on H2 is with an EFI. If H2 burns, it is odorless and colorless, thus the only way to detect an H2 flame is by the heat generated. Since the majority of the escape points are under the hood (which gets hot when you run a car), this is dangerous. Commercially available Hydrogen would probably come with an additive that colors it and gives it a smell. A carb, to me, seems like a good escape point for the H2 and thus if I were to screw with it, I would screw with it in an EFI engine. However, the second issue is the problem of it being a negative energy process. Unlike Petro, where the majority of the work has been done for us, we are stuck doing most of the work. Thus, running the car solely on H2 and generating it solely from that source is not a viable option (even with industrial applications, the H2O cracking is at best 40% efficient). If I were to design the car to run on H2, I would do it like this. I would build myself a battery bank into the car that could be charged off of both the alternator and off of wall power (plug in at the house). This battery bank would feed your H2 Cell. Remember, wall power is significantly cheaper per KW than the cost of the gas required to turn the alternator to supply the same charge. By doing this, you have automatically built yourself in a buffer. You can cruise around for a couple of hours with the charge in the batteries generating the H2. Now, to make this a little more complex (I'm an engineer, if it works, then it doesn't have enough features yet). You could also hybrid the car in with gasoline. We are not going to run them simultaneously, but either one or the other. Say you wanted to cruise from Houston to New York. This would obviously exceed the power capacity of the previously mentioned battery bank. However, when you drained the battery bank to a point where it is considered in need of a recharge (call it 30%), your computer would switch the car over from H2 to Gas and as you drove under the power of Gasoline, you would be recharging the battery bank. Once you were back up to about 90% charge, your computer would switch you over from Gasoline back to H2. The software to manage this is pretty simple. For the prototype, I would write the thing in Labview and interface the laptop into the car (again, not terribly difficult). The tough part is going to be containing the H2. John
I have a WAAAY better idea. It doesn't require any precious water and all you need to do is add one more generator to the motor (no alternators, please). Here's how it works: Cover the hood, roof and trunk lid with solar cells (woo hoo giddy up if you have a long roof). Wire the cells to #1 generator and thus add huge amounts of horsepower to the engine through the drive belt. This could increase your mileage up to 85%, according to the calculation my mailman did. Better yet, you can even run at night. Just add several of those high zoot Piia off road lights to the car, shining right on the solar cells. Power them with generator #2. Gas mileage increase is only 42.7% at night, but that's still really awesome. You can even point one light off into the woods if you want to hunt deer (caution, saving is only 28.62% with one less light). Exceuse me now, I have to run to the US patent office.
try reading this ,it can be made ,low cost and it works http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/gCMjSK...3-S4ulNXAPZYToKRww9EFxgF5a4Stog/Chapter10.pdf
I Merged the last 2 Threads on Hydrogen Cells onto a Merged Thread about Alt Fuels. Because we dont need that many. And unless you are building a Woodgas Generator, you are not being Traditional anyway...
Care to share any of YOUR scientific data? Someone toting the great benefits of such a contraption would surely have loads of PERSONAL data to support it.
I always crack up when I hear people talk about the 100-200 mpg carburator... Like they forget other countries that have been designing cars around efficiency for decades. Hondas in Japan that get upwards of 80 mpg, and have been for a while. Unlike the US, Japan imports ALL their oil and much of their "natural resources." And they heavily research anything to improve efficiency. They have whole categories of vehicles that are designed to maximise fuel mileage. VW has researched it as well, with their 100 mpg commuter concept. IF there was a way of getting that easily from a carburator, these companies would have already delivered it, especially in Japan. And they'd have no problem cloning something especially if a patent indicated it could be done. As for alternative fuels, yes, hydrogen fuel cells are a promising tech, but "green gasoline" is a very new tech that is VERY promising. http://www.outlookseries.com/news/Science/3216.htm
I suppose...if you ignore the expense of finding it, pumping out of the ground and moving it to the refinery to be refined.
Hit the nail right on the head. I'm at work for a few days and I have to go back 18 pages to see what I missed. A good percentage of the CRAP between is off-topic shit. Hydrogen cells, skateboards, post-64 vehicles, hybrids, sneezing etc. If it's not in the original spirit of this board, the poster should put that crap somewhere on another forum. It shouldn't be up to a Moderator to kill a post on sneezing. It shouldn't be on here in the first place. Why do people post and respond to this stuff. Is it done just to get your post count up???? I think a lot of people forget your statement in the beginning of your post.
Don't take this as heckling... but what about the tradition of innovation? That's what sets one ride apart from the other..it was innovated to be different..have different features etc.. and I'm not hating on the purists...but why is there so much hate for those looking for something other than bending over every time they fill up the gas tank while big oil and congress are making out in the backseat? The only thing that is permanent is this world is change. Change is traditional. Maybe I'm stretching the idea a bit but...
Am I crazy, but could you make a car run on crystal meth. Would it be cheaper than gas. I know it blows up easy.
This thread started over 2 and a half years ago! This board is about speading the gospel of traditional rodding. That means celebrating the way cars were built in the early days, 1930's, 1940's and 1950's or any period that inspired them. (1900-1920's) The best part of what those guys were doing then is finding ways to do what had never been done, or adapting the newest V8 flatty to their old banger car, or ohv motor in place of a flatty, or hemi in place of their old ohv V8, or.... My point is that they were breaking new ground back then. This board like to remember what they did, but so many people want to ignore their whole way of thinking. What happened to breaking new ground? Innovation? How about breaking new ground using much of the traditional material available? I have no love for super high tech computerized powertrains, but what is so gastly about learning to master electricity in a simple chassis on transverse springs? Why can't I break new ground with an open cockpit? This board has a lot of posts that venture off-topic because it is a place for us to share ideas and compare notes. It's a place to learn. Are you content with what you already know? If so, press the power button and never come back. You are on a FUCKING PC and complain about using new technology??!?! I'll finish my LPG truck and put a EFI powrtrain in my wife's Chevy II, THEN I WILL BUILD my electric speedster with a T chassis and undropped axle using friction shocks and fabric body. I may not break new ground, but I'll go places you don't have the balls to follow! Now piss off and let people challenge each other. By clinging to your hemi A on duece rails you are just another cookie cutter that bought the pillbury dough in a tube instead of mixing up something new on your own. If I could hack out half the work of BASS, Littleman or Rolf, I WOULD! For now I'll have to stick with my pile of shit and the strangest ideas I can afford parts for. You want to stick with tradition? You better stay out of Paul' sAutoCad test thread in the tech section and ignore all the welding on the BASS coupe. (new fangled TIG welder and all) Like digging for parts for you old 97 carbs? Don't look at those new Demon 98's that will make you car actually RUN! Sorry for the blast folk's. I'm tired. Time to go charge my BATTERIES!
Or not so much a hotrod but like a cutom car but only with like a steam engine or something? Like maybe if a guy built his own "prototype" kind of car and used a different kind of engine that did not run on gas. I know im gonna get the "Duh you're a dumbass Duh huh" guys on this one but this is creative thinking, not cookie cutter crap like some like to follow. 1shot
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