Sudden Overheating Problem

My '57 Fairlane (SBF/AOD) has been running nice n' cool since I replaced the radiator and added a Mr Gasket 180* HiPo thermostat. I am also running a big blade flex fan and a shroud. Typically, she's been running about 180 on the highway and 185-190 in traffic...occassionally close to 200 if it's really hot outside.

Then, I went for a spin last night and she got up to about 220 on the highway. When I got into traffic, it started creeping even higher. I figured it might be the thermostat, even though it's only about a month old. I swapped it out under warranty and replaced it this morning. I also connected my little pusher electric fan that I got at the roundup.

I went for a test drive this afternoon and it shot WAY up in a matter of minutes. After about 5 miles it was creeping up over 240 and steadily climbing. I switched on the electric fan (toggle switched) and it didn't help AT ALL. I quickly got back home and it was puking coolant all over the garage floor....the car also "ran on" and sputtered when I shut it down, presumably from overheating.

The new thermostat is good (and not installed backwards) because the upper hose gets stiff with pressure once it opens up. The spring in the lower hose is fine. My timing is right on the money.


What else could it be? Maybe the water pump crapped out? It's not leaking and doesn't seem to be making any noise, but I really don't know what else it could be. It's really weird that this just happened so suddenly. Earlier in the week, she was fine and then last night it went to shite.

Thoughts?

 

how was the trans working? and check the timing at highway rpm to see if its over advancing.

 

Air lock.

 

Just a question, why did you replace the radiator? Was it leaking or was it plugged up? If it was plugged up, you may not have gotten everything cleaned out and the radiator plugged up again. Also, get yourself a infared temp meter that will help you diagnose the problem much better. Hope that helps.

 

The old radiator was leaking, no blockage that I know of.

I jacked up the front of the car to see if there was an air bubble and there wasn't. The timing is fine. Weird.

I'm going to replace the water pump and see if that's it. It has a lifetime warranty, so I might as well....

 

water pump bearing is gone or air lock, heater core plugged? I had a simular problem with my Nailhead goin to hotrod-a-rama last year. rad blew.. only to find waterpump went at the same (or close to) time.

 

Speaking worst case, head gasket?? Check for bubbles in the radiator while its running or antifreeze in the oil.

Best case double check the timing like mentioned. I've had a few degrees play hell on how hot the motor ran.

 

Do you have a Ford thermostat?
Not necessarily a gennie Ford part, but a stat designed for Ford.


Here's why I ask.

Clevelands have a thermostat that closes the bypass when the thermostat is up to temp and open for max coolant flow.

A Chevy stat will fit, but the bypass remains open due to the stat doesn't close the bypass off when it's open.

Which means, quite a bit of coolant is bypassing the radiator via the open bypass making the engine overheat.

Try your old thermostat and see what happens.

Compare thermostats as well, the Ford (for Clevelands) will have an about 3/8" diameter button on the bottom that comes down to shut off the bypass hole at the bottom of the thermostat well.
The button moves in conjunction with the stat valve/spring.

You may have a Windsor, but I'm guessing the thermostat setup may be the same.

You can run a stat for Fords if that's the problem.

You can also run a 1/4" (if I remember right) NPT tap in there and screw a flush style allen head plug in.
The allen plug should be even with the floor of the stat well when it's seated.
Use Never-Seize on threads.
That will seal and allow for easy removal if necessary.

 

Out of all the SBF t-stats I've seen, not one had anything to do with the bypass. Am I being had or am I misinterpretting your post? The way you explain it it makes perfect sense and I'd like to run a stat that closes off the bypass. Not doing so makes the cooling system severely inefficient. My motor tends to run a little warm, warmer than I like on hot days. Not trying to Hijack, but this is good information and I'd like to know more.

 

Not to be a smart A$$ ... but check the fan belt for slippage and it's tension. Sometimes they wear and slip and sometimes they just need adjusting

Been there ... done that .

 

I didn't see anyone asking about the radiator you just installed??????New???Used????Made for your car????

 

No issues with the radiator at all. It's a brand new 3-row for a SBF and has been running cool as a cucumber since I installed it in March until last night. Weird thing is, it ran warmer than usual last night, but never puked over. Today, I can barely get out of the neighborhood and it's hitting 250*.

Apparently, it's not the water pump, either. I just went on a test drive after replacing the water pump and I can't even make it a mile without overheating. Both heater hoses are hot, so I'm reasonable sure the heater core is not plugged. I drained the coolant and it's completely clean and clear. I checked the oil and it's clear with no water/coolant in it and there's no steam coming from the tailpipes. I double checked the timing again and it's dead on perfect.

Maybe I'll bypass the heater core just to make sure, but I can't imagine that would cause it to overheat in less than 2 minutes.

Could a tranny about to take a dump cause it to overheat? Seems like a longshot because the fluid looks just like it did the day I poured it in and it seems to be shifting fine. There is a very faint whine in there somewhere, but I don't know if that's new or if I'm just too sensitive to every little noise.

I'm completely baffled. It was running absolutely perfect until last night.


Help!

 

Dave - With it getting so hot so quick, i think it is possible you have a blown/cracked gasket or head. Pull you spark plugs and see if there is any crystalization forming on the plugs or if any of them look weired. If so, chances you found the side of your problem. There is a test kit you can get that detects exhaust in the coolant. I think the tranny is fine.

George

 

At this point Famous59 has the best idea. It sure sounds like combustion gas getting into the cooling system. They will get real hot real quick and a gasket can fail suddenly.

 

What Slowandlow63 said. Just do it cold with the rad full to the top of the filler neck. I'm betting you will get lots of combustion gases out the filler neck as in head gasket leak.

 

Could it be as simple as he needs a new radiator cap....old one not holding pressure?

 

Could be,,,

When you installed the radiator,,,did you fill with coolant and let the engine run with the radiator cap off until the thermostat opened and released the trapped air and then finish filling the system,,,,,

It could be a lack of coolent in the radiator. HRP

 

I remember a test tool for checking gas in the collant...A good repair shop should have one.

 

Nope.
Not kidding around.
Engines are a serious subject, especially so with me.

Are you running a Cleveland?

I did this trick to myself on my 77 Ford 3/4 ton 4x4 with 400-M Cleveland.

At the time, the only thermostat you could get for them was rated 197 degrees F.

Being a clever guy - sometimes - I measured a Chevy thermostat and found it was a drop-in.
I wanted a 180 degree thermostat and there was no problem finding one for a Chevy.

At the time I was towing a 23' sailboat to the big desert lakes a couple times a year so my thinking was that starting up the big grades at 180 degrees was better than hitting the bottom of the hill at 197 degrees.

Running empty, the trucks engine would settle out at about 210 degrees on the SoCal non-desert highways and a touch more in town.

My dad got a big ol "Desert Radiator" built for me, I pulled the heads, new gaskets, belts, new water pump, no problems there, but it still ran hot.

Local radiator shops didn't know what was going on and were as stumped as dad - a really good oil field mechanic and a bit of a hot rodder his own self - and me.

Took a while, but I figured it out on my own.

Did the tap the hole and plug trick, left the Chevy stat in, no more overheating probs.


Then there was the flathead we drove home on alcohol . . . but that's another story....

 

yeap!
that where I would start.
I had a buddie with the same problem, he did a lot of work before he mentioned replacing his belt before the problem started.
he tighted the belt and it was fixed.

 

Let's back up. Unless the shaft on the water pump broke so the impeller can't spin, then there is no reason to think its bad. Its either going to leak or the impeller isn't turning. There is no rocket science with a water pump.

BUT, what water pump do you have? You have two different rotation pumps used on SBF. If you have the serpentine belt system, then it is going to be a reverse rotation than what the old v-belt type would be. Both will move water, but the wrong one is going to do a very poor job. It might be fine until things really start to heat up like it has been in the past week or so with the high humidity.

Also, did you install the backing plate on the water pump before you installed it? Was there one when you removed the old one? There is a flat metal plate between the pump and the timing cover. Without it a lot of water can bypass and the pump can't move the water as well.

Check your oil for the dreaded milkshake and do a compression test to see if you might have a headgasket failed.

 

To answer Frank's questions...

I have a serpentine belt system and a reverse rotation water pump, so no issues there. The old water pump and the replacement one both had the metal backing plate, too. No milkshake in the oil, either.

I am going to pull the plugs tonight and see if there's anything obvious there. Then, I'll do a compression check and move forward from there.

I am leaning toward the head gasket theories right now. If I start it and let it idle, it takes about 5 or 6 minutes to get up to 200*. If I start it cold and immediately drive, it shoots up to 240* (and more) in less than two minutes. That lends some credibility to the combustions gas theory on page 1.

I'll update as I dig more into this thing tonight.

 

In your first post you mentioned a big aftermarket flex fan - I'm not aware of one that works with a reverse rotation water pump setup. Did you just put it on? Or put it on backwards? Make double sure it's pulling air and not pushing it through the radiator. You can get a big bunch of stalled air on the radiator at slow (neighborhood) speeds if it is pushing.

 

Flexalite makes several reverse rotation fans. It's definitely spinning in the right direction. It's been on there for months, too, and has done a great job of cooling.

 

Bingo Denise, frequenty overlooked item and a quick cheap fix sometimes.

 

I hope it's the flexfan, but if you're smart enough to install a reverse water pump I'm assuming you did your homework on the flexfan too.

I'm assuming that by "sudden" you mean that you didn't notice the temperature creeping up on you... my first reaction to reading "Sudden Overheating Problems" was a blown head gasket. Most other failures are either NOT so dramatic or you get warning signs...they gradually keep getting worse over time, whereas blown head gaskets don't gradually happen, they're instantaneous. It also sounds like you've checked everything else. It's not a hard fix, just time consuming. The only thing I'd make sure of at this point (unless YOU built the engine) is that you get the correct thickness of gasket, otherwise you could inadvertantly change your compression ratio a bit.

 

Try and remember what CHANGE you made on car JUST before the problem started....Might look there for trouble..

 

my vote is headgasket... lot's of other good leads but i'm fairly certain based off the followups

sorry to be the bearer of bad news

 

On the flex fan, it's a Flexalite #1516 Serpentine Fan, so no issues there.

That's why I am now thinking head gasket. It really was sudden. It was running perfect for months. I swapped out the thermostat a month ago (lower temp) and got it running even cooler for the summer months. I drive it just about every day and was completely fine until Saturday. Prior to Saturday, I was consistently in the 180-190 range. On Saturday, it shot up to 220+ and then yesterday it was shooting up to 260+ in a matter of minutes.

Oh yeah, and I built the engine, so we're good to go there.

 

I hope you can get to the heads easy enough while the engine is still installed...sometimes THAT is the worst of the fix - no room to work and stooping over (major back killer). And...don't forget to flush your cooling system (another messy PITA). Sounds like your weekend is planned out...have fun.