Hello guys... I've finally got most of the straight front end on my 55 Chevy nailed down and am to the point of hooking up the steering shaft from the Rack and pinion to the column. The car has a 32 front axle with 37 spindles and 59 Buick aluminum drums. I used a transverse spring on split wishbones. The R&P is from a 90's cavalier that is front mount. The tilt steering column is from a 67 Camaro w/ a 1"-48 spline shaft that I shortened to just barely protrude thru the firewall. The Cavalier R&P has what I will call a dampener for lack of knowing what it is really called, with a flexible "rubber doughnut" between 2 flanges that bolt together. This thingie is splined right on the R&P. What I had planned to do was tie the R&P to the column with a 3/4" steering shaft and 2 "U" joints and one 3/4" Heim somewhere in the middle of the steering shaft. My question is this: Is this "dampener thingie" necessary and will leaving it out transmit lots of road noise to the steering wheel? Thanks Joe r
Not absolutely necessary, but they absorb the small vibrations that'll put you hands to sleep on a long haul. I used a Ford R&P that had a combination U joint/steel spring vibration dampener at the rack. Flatman
What he said! If you mount it to the frame it's gonna bump steer like nobody's bidness. If you mount it to the axle, good luck getting steering shafts to work as you'll be moving in multiple planes at once. Straight axles and R&P just don't work, especially if it's a driver! JMHO
The only R&P steering that I know of that works well with a straight axle is the one that Flaming River has. BIG BUCKS. You won't be happy with the setup you are contemplating.
I have a Unisteer R&P on my coupe and it is one of the best things that I have done to the car. I had a Flaming River Vega on it first. That thing wore out in about 12,000 miles.
The UniSteer R&P is a different animal all together, it acts like a box. It cross steers to the right and then uses a tie rod like a Vega would.
OK, OK,,, I just asked an innocent question. Man, I did not mean to get anybody PO'ed at my plans with the rack and pinion for my 55. I had always heard that the R&P is more responsive and was smoother than other types of steering is why I wanted to use it. Incidently,, for the guys that did ask,,,,my R&P is mounted on the frame in front of the transverse spring. It really feels nice and firm at this point but the proof in the puddin will be when I get it on the road and up to speed. I'm not sure how to post pics, so when I figure it out,, I will post some pics,,,,,,and then run for the woods.
I don't think anyones PO'd, I just think they are passionate. I'll tell ya though, if it's mounted to the frame, make that first drive slow and easy cuz I gotta believe you're gonna have big bump steer. Just mt 2 cents
We are more concerned than PO'd. I guess that the spindles are turned so the arms are forward. That will result in the accerman design working backwards. It will cherp the tires when turning. I would consider changing the arms to the rear and going with the uni-steer if you really insist on the rack. Why not use the 55 stock box? That is the way it was done "back in the day"
i didn't say anything about the use of the rack in my first post , because i was waiting for more info on his setup. a friend of mine , over my objections , is installing a rack and pinion on his model A ford project . the rack is mounted on the frame too. we did some checking on his and with a 3" up and down travel of the axle there is about 3/8" of toe change. that has to effect the handling , but he is going ahead with it anyway. we will see how it works after he gets it on the road
Hey 36-3window, thanks for the comeback. I appreciate your concern. I copied General Motors on the installation of the R&P like it came off their donor car. The cavalier had the R&P in front of the main frame crossmember, mounted to the frame, and the mounting arms in front of the wheels. I just figured if it works for GM,,it should work for me,?? Is your friend's R&P mounted in front or behind the axle? What DO you call the thingie with the flex joint? thanks. I will post some pics of my set up today if I can find the correct procedure in the search. desert joe
If you want the rack to work properly with the straight axle you must mount it to the axle itself. To answer your question, no, you do not have to use the rag joint in your setup. You may replace it with a u joint. One more thing about the rack and pinion on a straight axle, you will need a section of steering shaft that has an inner and outer section that slide together to compensate for spring travel in front end. Should work fine. Good luck with your project.
Make sure you increase your live insurance before you drive it on the road, your wife will appreciate it. That sounds like a death trap in the making to me.
What state do you live in? I don't wanta' be around when ya' drive this thing. Technically you're in for BIG trouble with that brainstorm.
Man...you CAN'T compare independent suspension rack mounting to a straight axle setup! The concepts are totally different in movement. You need to study some suspension books or at least copy proven straight axle setups. Your not copying GM...your just bastardizing a bunch of ideas and parts together and then trying to legitimize it. This is your STEERING...!!! Do it RIGHT.
I'm also very curious to see some pics of this setup. Beleive me, I know the results of bump steer. Like others have said, the tie rods have to be parallel to the ground and I'm not sure how you can do that with your components.
Shakey's been thru it with his wicked Gasser...he KNOWS the heartache... I'd just add a bit to what he says so you can't misunderstand it! I'm also very curious to see some pics of this setup. Beleive me, I know the results of bump steer. Like others have said, the tie rods have to be LONG AND parallel to the ground and I'm not sure how you can do that with your components.
Hey alchemy It is attitudes and responses such as yours that don't do anything towards forwarding the cause of The HAMB. I have worked on several other rods of various different styles and have never been accused of building anything that was " cobbled up and dangerous". The rack and pinion was merely an idea that I had been throwing around and is why I posted on this site for some ideas from other members. Your extremely negative attitude leaves everybody no doubt as to your outlook on life. The R&P sure may not be a workable idea,,,but nobody ever advanced the status of anything by sitting in a chair and doing nothing. Incidently,,,I did see a 55 with this setup at Pate in Dallas last year but did not get to talk with the owner. ( and it was'nt cobbled up and dangerous) Hope you have a better day.
You may have copied GM on the mounts, but since a 55 never came stock with a straight axle, I can't see how you could have copied the geometry. There is MUCH more involved in making a car handle and steer properly than taking parts that work and combining them. Check out this link, it has lots of relevant info that you NEED to know before continuing. This stuff really is life and death. http://www.carbibles.com/steering_bible.html Also, most people I know call the "thingy" a rag joint.
1 ---- i see no one responded to the thingy that you asked what it was called, its a rag joint, and is recommended in rack and pinion especially for the canceling of vibration 2 ---- you DO NOT mount the rack to the front axle, this is a death trap, accident waiting to happin, gm never mounted it to a solid axle, and on any car you pick it is mounted to the frame or frame rails depending on fwd or rwd --- gear box or rack and pinion 3 ---- you need to get it off the axle!!!!!! 4 ---- please post pics, not to hammer you anymore but just to guide you in the correct direction before someone gets hurt, this is why hot rodders have a bad rap, even though 95% of our cars are safer on the road than the new gm that just came off the line 5 ---- i have spent my life working as a mechanic and in my opinion, theirs nothing i cant fix, i am licensed and own a towing company, and we fix cars!!!!! i have spent over 15 + years in dealships also, so dont be affraid to ask for help, dont take it personal if we yell a little bit
Bottom line : A rack will never work CORRECTLY on a straight axle no matter where it is mounted end of story. The operative word here is correctly ,I have seen it done and if frame mounted bump steer up the wazoo. Mounted to the axle takes care of the bump steer but brings up a whole new set of problems relating to having slip joints in the steering shaft. Either put on a drag link setup or better yet put the tie rod behind the axle and do a cross steer. As another HAMBer has as a tag line Just Becaues You can do IT Does Not Mean you SHOULD !!
Joe, I'm having a wonderful day. I obviously have no idea of your fabrication skills, but I can see your "concept" skills are not coming together like they should be (re: cobbled). Your quote of "I just figured if it works for GM,,it should work for me,??" shows what I mean. GM never put a rack and pinion together with a straight axle, whether mounted to the frame OR the axle. Sorry, buddy, but I was just trying to save you some heartache. Take my 2 cents as you will. PS: I call those thingies rag joints.
Hey,, HOT ROD DAVE,SHAKEYPUDDIN55 and others that asked. I will try to post some pics,,,then I'm running for the woods. Ha!! I do appreciate everybody's concern and input. Great place for exchange of ideas! Hey, Shakeypuddin55, are you the same guy with the primered 55 that was on "Pass Time" last week? Impessive wheelie,Guy. Really shook up the troops on the show!
I probably shouldn't stick my nose in again, but this is too much fun. Joe, your ackerman is backwards. The steering arms need to point outwards if placed in front of the kingpin, and yours point inwards. Your steering scrub will be horrible, at any speed. Do a search on "ackerman" on the HAMB.
Okay Desertjoe, that will not work. Put a jack under one side of the axle and lift it. Watch what happens to the tire, its going to turn. That is called bumpsteer, and it can KILL you. Better yet it can KILL other people on the road when you can't keep YOUR heep in YOUR lane! Every time one tire is moved up or down in relation to the other, this thing is going to change direction. Every bump, dip, high spot, dead animal, rock, leaf, blade of grass in the road is going to cause your vehicle to change direction. The bigger the bump the bigger the steering change. Changing lanes at random is not my idea of fun. Please rethink/redo this setup.
The Jalopy Journal
